Rage Against the Machine rips off Carpenter???

[NirvanaNole]

I'll start by explaining my feelings to Rage. I had their second CD years ago. When I saw their politics hanging the American flag upside down with crap on it, and I read some of the utter bullshit and lies Zach wrote and said, I told myself I'd never buy anything from them again. Well, once Zach's pussy ass quit, the remaining members formed Audioslave with Chris Cornell (Soundgarden singer). I bought Audioslave's cd since I was a HUGE Tom Morello fan (Rage and Audioslave guitarist) fan. I got into his guitar play so much, I decided to put my feelings to Zack aside and bought Rage's first album.

The guitar work was amazing. I absolutely loved it and was mad at myself for never buying it. After that I looked for "The Battle of Los Angeles" album. Well, I live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama (suckssss!), and I couldn't find a copy for months. I finally found it Tuesday night when I went to buy LOTR box set, Primus, and some other cds. I put it in, and I was BLOWN away by Tom's guitar playing on this album. However, one song stuck in my head from the moment I heard it. Track 11, "Ashes in the Fall," made me think of the music from past Halloween movies. I haven't put in my dvds to see if it is the same, but I swear Tom's guitar is playing a funky version lifted from the Halloween series.

Is anyone a fan of Rage and Halloween and thought of this? I don't know if I'm nuts or not, but I SWEAR it could pass for an updated version of Halloween! All you have to do is hear the intro to the song. Outside of that riff, the rest is nothing like Halloween; however, the song KICKS ASS!

I was seeing if anyone else has noticed this.

On another note, anyone that loves guitar will love all of Rage's albums if you don't have them. My God Morello is a God!!!!!!

[mudsliptones]

morello isn't a god, he's just pure originality
his style is so weird that he's like the only person that plays like that
but to call him a god, mmmmm, I can name better ones, like most obvious, jimmy hendrix

bute rage is really good, but audioslave isn't my thing

[NirvanaNole]

Mud,

It is possible to have more than just one guitar God IMO. Originality is what establishes one's place in that category. Tom can play virtually any guitar riff ever written, and he has invented guitar sounds no one else has come close to playing. He is easily the most original guitarist since Stevie Ray/Van Halen, although I still prefer Slash's solos over his any day.




Damn, since no one else has replied, I guess I'm the only one that noticed the similarity between "Ashes in the Fall" and Halloween. :confused:

[Arioch]

Original?yes i gotta give that to tom. God? hmmm, sorry. Hes good, dont get me wrong but i dont think 10 years from now there is gonna be anyone claiming "Tom Morello changed guitar playing forever". Guitar gods, are musicians that can not only make an original sound, but can make music that stands the test of time. Jimmy Page, Jimmy Hindrix, Eric Clapton, these are guitar gods in my opinion. Don't get me wrong Tom IS a great musician and no one really sounds like him, but he didnt really change rock, or guitar playing all that much.

Audioslave is a bitt overrated too i think, i do really like rage tho.
My $0.02.

Oh yeah, ill download that song. I know the halloween theme note for note, even the bassline. Ill listen for it and get back to ya.

[Arioch]

Hey Nirvana, i got it and listened to it. The first 2 notes he pivits to are the exact same. But after that, he goes up to a different note, sustains it, then goes higher, and sustains that. Thats much different. The thing that i did notice is that riff is almost the EXACT same rhythm. Thats whats makes it sound like halloween's theme so much. When you put the first 2 notes of halloween with the exact same rhythm, lol, it does kinda sound like a rippoff. But the rest of the song is totally different and since its really just the begining of that riff that sounds like it i gotta so no, he probably didnt rip it off, and if he did he was pretty classy about it.

Kickass song tho, nice thread too.

[NirvanaNole]

Thanks Arioch. I knew it sounded really familiar. I haven't watched any of the Halloween movies in a while so I wasn't sure. I wonder if he was inspired by the Halloween theme when he came up with the song, though. I guess only he knows.

I'm curious. What do yall to define a guitar God as?

Arioch, the test of time requirement you stated seems misplaced IMO. What is the test of time? How long does one have to last to reach that level? The artists you stated all started in their the 60s or early 70s. It has been over 30 years since each of those guitarist first recorded an album.

And with your comment about not changing rock, Tom Pettey has been quoted saying Cobain/Nirvana was the most influential music since the Beatles. Assuming that is true (you probably don't agree, obviously), would that make Cobain a great guitarist? How about Lennon/Harrison from the Beatles?

I'm sure you can see where I am leading this questioning to. I probably gave up my sinister plan by using examples before you defined what a guitar God is in your opinion. :D

[Arioch]

Ok, well for the record lets make sure that this is all opinion and ill state that i can like a guitarist, and often do, without thinking they are great. I like Nirvana, as you mentioned, we can all state, and its pretty much fact, that nirvana changed music. They took us from 80s pop and duran duran to grundge. They changed everything, but Kurt really isnt that great of a guitarist. Original ya sure, but hes just not in the league of the greats, IMO.Same with John Lennon one of the great musicians of our time?? without a doubt! Guitar God??hmmm not really. Just an incredibly talented songwriter.

Same with tom, dont get me wrong i like his style alot. Its totally different making it sound like a turn table etc. But to be a guitar GOD, to me, you have to have more than that.

But i guess if you boil it down the question of who's a guitar god is just as person and opinion oriented as what kind of music do you like, and everyones gonna have they're own.

[NirvanaNole]

Originally posted by Arioch
But i guess if you boil it down the question of who's a guitar god is just as person and opinion oriented as what kind of music do you like, and everyones gonna have they're own.

You're a politician, aren't ya? :D

What is your definition? I'm curious. Obviously everyone has their own opinion on it, but I'm curious to know how you define it to include those you mentioned, but not Tom. Jeff Beck, who you mentioned, isn't exactly the most influential guitarist of all time, nor is he particularly prolific in pure playing ability.

I guarantee you Morello could play Beck under the table with a clean electric guitar and no effects. Morello was a speed metal nut back in the day in LA with many other guys. He got tired of it since it had been done and decided to create a new sound. That does more for me than Steve Vai, Eric Johnson (more bluesy, I admit), etc.

But I digress. Who since '78 (believe that was Van Halen's first album, Eddie's a gimmie on any guitar player's list) would you consider in your own guitar God category? Not a flame or anything, but I'm curious.

[Arioch]

You're a politician, aren't ya?

Lol, ya that was a total politician last line wasnt it. You got me.

Well, the one thing i really think makes a good guitarist(and honestly i cant claim this theory on my own, my classical guitar teacher told me this and i kinda suscribe to the concept) is not Maximum Notes Per Second (thus Eddie isnt on my list at ALL) but their ability to make a solo exactly fit into a song. Like the solo has to be there or the song is right ya know. Tom is pretty good at this, in fact, I dont think any of the Rage songs would be half as good with any other guitarist. For example: Bulls On Parade, now we both know that the intro to that song is 2 notes (1 actually its an octave up) but he makes those notes kick so much ass your instantly hooked on the song from the start. THEN, he breaks out that wah pedal and with 1 chord makes they'r most famous riff. Classic hit. Thats what i really look for in a good guitarist.

Thats funny this starting off as a argument against Tom being a guitar GOD and now its turning around.:confused:

Anyway, a great example of this is David Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame. He knows how to write a solo so every note feals exactly right in the song where he can take you through highs and lows just by his guitar playing (listen to the outro solo to Comfortably Numb) Not comparing him to Tom or anything, way too different styles, just using him as an example to demonstrate my criteria for guitar divinity.

My own personal list? Thats tougher, most of the guitarist ive called masters i dont even like. Most of the guitarist i really enjoy are classical ones but im pretty sure we're sticking to the Rock genre. Im with you on Stevie and Eric Johnson, i really cant get into shit that bluesy. Just not my thing. You cant deny their influence tho.So i guess ill just give ya a couple that really inspire me and keep it that vague.;)

Dimebag Darrel (i love his combination of blues and metal riffs, and he does some crazy chord progressions, The Great Southern Trendkill is one of the best metal albums of all time IMO)
David Gilmour (uhhh already talked about him lol)
Scott Putesky( a little known guitarist that worked with Trent Reznor on Manson very first album. What tom does with pickscrapes and slides Scott does with harmonics and feedback. Hes truly spastic integrating insane blues riffs with full frett board harmonics. Checkout the "cake and sodomy", "wrapped in plastic", "dopehat", and "lunchbox", if you can get past manson's gimmick lyrics, just listen to the guitar on that album. Youll be amazed.) Thats pretty much what gets me going, damn this post is long. Better quit now.

[Arioch]

OMG cant believe i forgot one of my favorite guitarist of all time!:eek:

Jerry Cantrell of alice in chains. Listen to his solos to "over now", "Down in a hole", "rotten apple", "NUTSHELL" (i absolutely love this one), "Got me wrong" and "stay away" Goddamn they were so badass. I really miss those guys.