Sorry to burst your bubble, but this discussion started back in '88.

I was watching Tarzen and his matthis morning - I shudder at some how some of the animals might have been treated during this..

Some of the trip wires on horses in old westerns were pretty harsh too - and Khartoum with Heston I remmeber looking very rough..The Charge of the Light Brigade and the original Ben Hur killed a shit load of horsies too.

@TheWickerFan: Ah, it's not a problem. I'm used to conversations turning completely different in a short duration. Anyway, yep; I basically agree with you on the final judgment of each film.

@Ferox13: Oh, I do remember hearing about an abundance of violence in Tarzan and His Mate. Even with a film like that, I'd probably have to turn it down for the animal abuse. Ooh, yes, all of those Spaghetti westerns did have a fair amount of animal abuse. RIP Horsies #1-Shit Load.

@milktoaste: I was simply joking when I said "...and delicious". I always make little quirks like that when writing. And if you want to go that far, I will join you. I know a category of people that take such measures to gain attention for their actions. They are called serial killers. Now, of course, Tun Fei Mou is not a serial killer, but he still shouldn't have actually killed a cat and dug up an actual corpse for attention. Are slaughterhouses set up to get attention? NO! So slaughterhouses and Tun Fei Mou should be separated by now. And I understand that it does teach the history of the event well enough for those who were unaware of the event are now knowledgeable of the subject. It feels like you're respecting the film for nostalgic matter mainly, but I'll digress. If there was one other famous film about U-731, then maybe the popularity of Men Behind the Sun would decrease even more. And your description of the scene of the cat's death still doesn't explain why the director HAD to kill it. It might've been due to go to a gas chamber or something like that, but to have it get eaten by rats is pointless. And I don't think that TheWickerFan was taking pride in the situation that this thread is in, but hokay.

@ChronoGrl: Lmao, PETA....but you are correct, yes. I'd prefer if there were some animal rights laws legislated a little farther back than reality had let it happen, but that makes me a whining little bitch, wouldn't it? :P And my main problem was that they could have used some form of animatronics, dummies, puppets, dolls, marionettes, something. I find it a bit greedy of the directors to use real animals, for that matter. It probably cost more than dolls, marionettes and puppets, but there were animatronics and dummies that could have looked realistic back at the time. It's hard to determine their primary motive for using real animals, but we can determine the top probable choices, at least. And well, well, well, we have a pretty good explanation there for the best choice then. Tun Fei Mou desired the controversy to not only gain local attention, but more importantly, the attention of the Japanese officials. It still sickens me, but I see the primary motive now. I only wish that Tun Fei Mou took alternative routes in causing controversy. And The Rape of Nanking, I've never read that story either, but I may eventually.

@Elvis_Christ: Ah, alrighty then. C'mon, you two, break it up. Ooh, and someone is a bit feisty with their profanity. Decaf, next time. And I understand that the events on trips to and at slaughterhouses are very cruel and harsh, but they are certainly not as unacceptable as severe animal abuse for entertainment purposes or desire of meaningless controversy and attention. Yeah, what exactly did Tun Fei Mou accomplish from all of these films in the end? Controversy from the wrong people. Ah well, better luck next time. :P

I swear lots. You'll get used to it.

@WAF, I'm afraid you've taken my rebuttal out of context, I really don't think I took your comments very far at all- and your views on serial killers apparently only trying to gain attention for some cause is absurd. I wouldn't say(and haven't said) that I respect the film, but I do respect the message behind the film and the extreme measures an entire production crew was willing to take to tell it to the world, even if those measures were inappropriate.

The fact that so few of us in Europe are aware of the atrocities that the Japanese carried out on the Chinese during the early part of the 20th Century shows that there was a need for this to be bought into the public arena. I Only discoverd it when reading an article in The Times and was sickened and horrified. Whether the way it has been told in this film, and the motives of the film makers was pure, I don't feel so sure of. But I definitely agree that it needed to be told. I can watch horrors or read about them happily if they are ficticious. But to view something so horrific that is a representatio of real events, I find impossible to watch without feeling guilty or sick. And I am someone who has witnessed some of what the worst horrors can depict for real!

Oh and just a little note that may give more pause for thought. (but please don't shoot me down in flames).

The 'research' and tests carried out by the Japanese into frostbite. Despite being unethical, was taken and used by the US government. The research itself was invaluable and the US knew it was totally unethical for they, themselves to carry out. But the evidence and research that they siezed after VJ day has saved numerous lives in hospitals and war zones.
Some of the Japanese scientists worked covertly for the American government, just as some of the German doctors defected after the war. It doesn't make them any less monstrous, but it does kind of help to know that the suffering the chinese went through was not completely in vain.
Please don't shout at me for saying this :o

That is a valid point Bastet, the US could be said to be indirectly (and directly at times) responsible for many atrocities, or at least to have gained by them.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Yeah the Americans (well General MacArthur) apparently gave UNIT 731 a free pass on prosecution of warcrimes in exchange for the info gained from their experiments.

This is allegedly also true about the nazi scientists brought over on Operation Paper clip..