As the term was coined by a critic who hated the genre, I suppose you have a valid point. I myself enjoy a lot of these films;Hostel, Saw, Wolf Creek etc. (though I think Philosophy Of A Knife has them all beat for being one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen). I will try to use the term Exploitation in the future.

I know that we've had this conversation before... Without the context, that phrase honestly does make sense to me - A lot of horror is pornographic... And these are torture films... Maybe we can just like other minoritive groups we could just "reclaim" the phrase... ;)

How so? I guess you're meaning people watching for visceral thrills & gore.

Forced Entry would have to come (haha :p) under the banner of pornographic horror.

I think that maybe I was being too general - When I think about how horror may be "pornographic," I think about the sexual nature of penetration, be it stabbing, cutting, etc. I think of exploitation as being pornographic, and a lot of horror is exploitative. When thinking of "torture porn," people are getting penetrated, abused, degraded, exploited for an audience, which is similar to pornography.

I don't know - The association makes sense to me.

If one wanted to steer away from the term "torture porn" (and I do because I respect you and Ferox, who both hate the term), what would you use to describe movies that focus on torture, like Hostel, Men Behind The Sun, Salo, Martyrs, etc? I honestly reach for words when trying to express that genre... Like I feel that it's too simple to say "torture" and too simple to say "exploitation."

Thoughts?

Sure - Everyone makes a big deal about Men Behind the Sun but no one - NO ONE - bats an eye at The Book of Eli!!

It's furist. :mad::mad:

I dunno - but do we really need a term to describe every subgenre?*

The 4 examples you gave I feel are very different types of film - I really don't see MBTS having anything in common with Martyrs. Though Salo and Hostel certainly have certain common themes (sexual sadism - the social Elite being a law onto themselves) the films are are executed so differently I wouldn't consier them the same genre.

I presume when the media use the term they mean a genre where the is little story and the films raison d'etre is to string together violent/sadistic scenes - in the same way (most) traditional porn films are made. As opposed to films that have 'sexual sadism' in them as they alway use Saw as an example of 'Torture Porn' (and theres no sexual elements to it..

With that way of thinking we should start calling old Shaw bros movies 'Fightporn' :-) (and Groucho Marx was a great innovator of 'Chuckleporn'..

Ok, I'm just rambling now...




*With the exception of 'UNDERWATER NAZI ZOMBIES' that genre just had to be named..

I personally think that "torture porn" is the perfect name for this ever expanding genre of movies. Both terms are being used in a more generalized fashion and together forming an instant mental image that perfectly suits the films.

Torture: Not necessarily the act of torture. Just violence. Brutal and in your face. No punches being held at all. More than likely physical violence, but could also mean psychological violence on an extreme level.

Porn: Not necessarily sexual and in many instances, not sexual at all. Just scene after scene strung together by a typically almost non-existent plotline just like your typical XXX porn movie. I don't feel the use of "porn" here has any base in sexual metaphors. It's about the non-stop scenes of a particular type.

So together you have a descriptor for a movie that focuses around brutal violence and not much else. Violence for violence's sake and if there happens to be a bit of a story thrown in it's probably just there to make you not feel quite so guilty about watching an hour and a half of brutal violence.

-----

As for the grouping of Hostel, Martyrs, Men Behind the Sun, and Salo I have to agree, they are radically different movies that really don't have much in common with each other other than the levels of violence, but they could all come under the umbrella of "torture porn" I guess. Hostel and Martyrs are in my mind, quintessential torture porn. Both have the weakest of plots with no real meaning behind them other than an excuse to string scenes of violence together. Men Behind the Sun, while the plot is quite weak is at least very loosely being somewhat documentary in nature. It is a chronicle of what really happened so it dispenses with much of a fabricated plot. Salo is the only one of the four that had an impact on me. I thought about it for days afterward. The ideas of the perceived worth of a human's life and how power can corrupt are quite powerful. Yes, it's a disturbing film to say the least, but I honestly don't think it deserves to be grouped with the others. It actually has meaning and purpose beyond scenes of violence and degradation..

When I hear the term 'torture porn' - what springs to mind is the more extreme BDSM stuff or films make by Insex (is that their name?) not Men Behind the Sun.

I don't think I dismiss the Hostel films as having 'no real meaning behind them' - they are some underlying themes in them: Both films are a criticism of Captalistic Society taken to its extreme where human life is a commodity. There is also a jib torwards how Americans 'use' the rest of the world (on a personal level as a playground for things like sex tourism or on a National level to rape poorer countries for their resources.)

Of course, this all takes a back seat to boobs, blood and torture but its still there. If we can talk about Romero and brainwashing of people by comsumurism than we can as least give Hostel 2 braincells of intellectual thought.

I feel the same about A Serbian Film.

Anyway - I digress..

As I mentioned before - a lot of genre films are this. I really felt that 'Airplane'/'Scary Movie' and 'he Naked Gun' were just an excuse to string a bunch of funny bits together and really lacked a decent plot :-)

Weird Al Fanatic, when you say torture is good only in the sexual aspect, and the rest is evil, I hope you are refering to fiction exclusively. Otherwise you would be a damn rapist.

Ok, it could be BDSM too, but for me is a little suspicious, I know that the thread is about a genre that is about torture, and that the people posting there like that type of things, but I hope it is only in a fictional or consensual area.