The Confederate Flag
 

a few monts ago a kid from my girlfriends school was severely beaten up after school by a group of black kids for having a sticker of a rebel flag on his binder. and today turned on the local news and it turns out that yesterday a teenage kid was murder by two black men for wearing a lynard skinnard shirt with a rebel flag on it. i understand that this is an offensive symbol to some people but this is taking it a little to far. i dont think these people woke up and said " im going to offend some black people, let me get my lynard skynnard shirt that will teach em"

It's part of their history let them wear it. those black people should be charged with a hate crime. o wait the victims were white and probably Christians. they're fair game for every minority who has failed to make it.

I had to get my coffee for this. Touchy subject that could start rolling down hill very quickly.

I'm Southern, everybody in my family is Southern except for my sister-in-law who is from Peoria Illinoise. Anyway, what happened to those two people is shit, pure and utter shit. It's the US and freedom of expression is central to our fundemental values. Oh how these people would whine if the shoe were on the other foot. To attack anyone, especially teenagers for the shirts they wear is lower than low. Their attackers are the scum of the earth. Hope someone sticks it to 'em.

Personally, though, I'm not a big fan of the rebel flag. If you've studied the Civil War you recognize that it does sorta insinuate a racist society. Not only that but it also represents the seperation of the US as a nation. I mean, I understand there was a lot of politicking behind the Civil War, but one of the major factors was slavery. Idon't think anyone should be punished for wearing or displaying it. It's a free country.

Personally I think it's wrong, they killed someone who didn't deserve to die there for they should be killed. Most teenager you see wearing a confederate flag don't even know and/or maybe reconize that it stood for what it stood for. On the other hand when I see shirts that say stuff like ''The south will rise again'' I find that to be moronic. If they were wearing a nazi shirt then I could careless(not about the death, that's wrong but an ass whoopin wouldn't be out of line at all imo) but I myself have a Skynard t-shirt and the last thing I'm thinking when I decide to wear it is how much it'll offend someone.(Though mine doesn't have a flag on it.)

There are black people who are racist and maybe it comes from the knowledge and hate of what happened and in some cases it doesn't either way it's not right. You shouldn't have hate for an entire race for what their ansestors did or for what their grandfathers might've done for that matter. Are there still racist,white supremist ect.? Of course, should they all be thrown into shark tanks? Yeah but that doesn't mean you judge someone without knowing them just because they share the same race as those assholes, don't go to their level and just hate everybody. If a racial situation comes up then you stand up for yourself and do what you have to do according to the particular situation but walking around beating up whoever you think might be racist doesn't make you any better than them.

Sorta insinuate a racist society? That's got to be the understatement of the year! I am from the far north (Minnesota) and that flag only means one thing up here... It is a symbol of slavery.

During the Civil War it represented the South. The South were trying to cecede from the Union because they wanted to keep slavery legal so during the course of that war, the flag shifted from symbolizing the South to becoming a symbol for those who would support slavery. Would you walk up to a black person and tell them they should be a slave? Of course not. But that's what you're indirectly telling them (At least up here) when you sport a shirt with the stars and bars on it. Personally, I hate the symbol. I find it disgusting and anytime I see someone wearing it, I instantly think of them as being amongst the lowest forms of white trash around.

But all that being said, we're a free country with free speech and the freedom to wear whatever the hell we want so violence should never be brought against anyone based on what they're wearing (Even if it IS nazi gear). It's just that if these people realized what symbol they think they're wearing may not be the same symbol they are projecting to everyone they encounter were two completely different things, maybe they'd wise up and these kind of situations would be avoidable.

This just depresses me to no end.
I feel like we will never unite.
2 steps forward-10 steps back.
I also live in a southern state (same state as Haunted)
Around here it is extremely racist.
The blacks stay with the blacks,
the asians stay with the asians,
the whites stay with the whites,
and the mexicans don't speak to anybody.
It's awful and I hate it.
My black friends rarely hang with me when I am with my white friends and vice versa...I don't know any asians or mexicans yet,but I know it would be the same way.


My way of thinking,
being racist is: missing out on alot of interesting friends.

I feel the same way without the lowest form of white trash part. I think some people that wear it don't even realize that it can be offensive. I've always felt that when two sides put their flags up and fight whoever loses as to pack it in and keep it there. You don't see any nazi flags waving in Germany do you.

well i am not racist but they (the black people) had their
Malcom X, and the african continent on there shirts or
around their neck,we (white people) didn't be the hell outta them?
:rolleyes:

I don't think those are good examples.

Malcom X and Africa weren't/don't represent a group of people who went to war to keep slavery. If a white guy walked around with a European continent shirt or necklace no one would make a fuse over it.

I'm not neccesarily calling them white trash, that's just what I automatically think when I see some jackass with a shirt on with that. They may be, they may not be, but they sure as hell look like it from where I'm standing, know what I'm sayin?

Quote:

I've always felt that when two sides put their flags up and fight whoever loses as to pack it in and keep it there. You don't see any nazi flags waving in Germany do you.

That a really valid point. Hey South... The war's over and you lost! Quit rockin' the stars and bars because it symbolizes racism now and if that's not your cause you have no business wearing it.

I was trying not to ruffle too many feathers when I said "sorta.":p

As a Southern Belle I would like to stand up and say, "Yes the war is over. We lost, and thank the Goddess for that!"

However, derelict fighters and Union officers that hadn't seen enough blood traveled westward to annihilate my father's people. Ain't that some shit?

This is just a convenient excuse for piece of shit fuckholes to beat up other people.
Flags themselves can mean a number of different things to different people. Somebody mentioned the swastika as a symbol of hate but before the nazi's it was recognized as a powerful symbol of good. Something to do with the sun and druids or some shit like that. The Confederate flag may mean slavery to some but to others its part of a local identity just like us Brits have separate English, Welsh, Scottish and N. Irish flags.

It's a pity to see that there's still so much racial tension in the US, to this day, not only surrounding this, but it would seem, a lot of other issues. I mean, I'm not saying my country is prefect in terms of racial harmony, but it sure seems like there's a lot less of this kind of shit by comparison, and trust me, we've got people from all corners of the globe living here too. Maybe it's just the sheer amount of people over there...I dunno...or maybe I just don't notice it as much, being a completely non-racist person, I guess I may sometimes tune out the kind of things I don't wish to personally involve myself in.

I'm not really aware about much US history, but my own country has had a rather violent history post white arrival, that's to say the least. However, certain people to this day, over 200 years later, feel they are owed some kind of special treatment and apologies from my people, sadly don't seem to realise that in doing this, they are only perpetuating what should be a long-dead issue, narrowing down their own oppertunities in this country, and actually adopting far more (reverse) racist attitudes than the majority of those they cry persocution against.
Not to say that these people are solely to blame, it's just unfortunate that not everybody ACTUALLY wants to get along.
I acknowledge that I speak of a different case entirely, but this is as close as I have to an individual perspective on the matter.
Basically, in any case like this...Bad shit has happened, as humans, we've commited many violent and horrible acts against eachother throughout history...we all acknowledge this. However, I think that anybody that feels the need to make their life about constantly referring to the past, their ancestry, or the wrong commited by the ancestors of others, and can actually bring themselves to use these things as ammunition to fuel hate crimes, is a fucking sad case, and needs to get with the present...Living in the past will only ever fuck with the future.

As for the teen that was murdered on account of his particular style/design of clothing...what a fucking joke. A totally backwards step there, and very sad to hear about. By the sound of it, in this day and age it's not a symbol I'd particularly display with pride, and may consider it a little tasteless, being aware of certain elements it used to represent...but I'm sure that if the person were still alive today, and questioned about it all, you'd find it was a matter of ignorance more than malice. I personally think that the killing of this person was the act of a far more racist person/people, those that obviously lie in wait for an excuse as small as this to commit violent acts are truly undeserving of the free world.

That's cuz us Americans like making a big deal out of everything.

If those black guys who beat the shit outta the kid were arrested, I don't see the problem. People hate other people, for whatever reason. If they wanna hate somebody enough to whomp him one, no matter what it's based on, that's assault and they should be arrested. If they were, problem resolved.

I know in the greater scheme of things, it aint that simple... but it should be.

Well I was born in West Virginia, and raised in Ohio. I must say there isn't any racist people in my area. (WV yeah almost everyone) I'm glad my parents didn't rasie me there. I have a bunch of black friends, I will hang out with them when they hang out with others I don't know they accept me for who I am I accept them for who they are. Here color don't mean shit to anyone, and I personally think racist people should all eat shit and die !

I agree with you 100% on this one Brother :mad:

This is an unfortunate story, but this is America too...not at all unusual in my area. The kid was a fan of southern rock, he probably had no clue what the confederate flag stood for, or why Lyndard Skynard uses it on their shirts, stickers, ect., as even when I was in school I noticed they don't teach much REAL American history in American history class. Nowadays the flag is more or less a redneck fashion statement.
The confederate flag isn't seen much in St. Louis, but we have more than enough race crimes, and hostility without it. I was even told by my victims defender when I was robbed at gunpoint I would have had a much easier time getting justice/protection if I had been black, and he had been white...but it was the other way around and it's unfortunate that race made such a difference in the way I was treated as a victim. It's also unfortunate that in certain areas here in St. Louis, and I'm sure in other places in this country, are still more or less segregated. Here mainly white people are on the southwest and west side, black people on the north and east side, and here where I am in the southeast side we have poor white people and Mexicans...sure it's a little more mixed up than that, but that's the main crunch of it. And no one really goes in other areas than where they live out of fear of what might happen to them when they wonder in the wrong neighborhood...I admit I think this way also, the one time I did go into one of these neighborhoods, I was greeted with a gun in my face.
All of this shit combined honestly makes me ashamed to be an American, and makes me wanna get the fuck outa here more and more each day. Shouldn't all this shit be behind us by now?

Maybe if the people who were affected were long dead, but the thing is they aren't long dead. There is a lot of people still alive who effected by the goverments policy, and they don't want a apology off you, they want it off the goverment. And i think they should get one, It was a policy that makes anything the u.s goverment did to the blacks there as harmless. They wanted to wipe those people off the face of the earth. Which they did in tasmania a whole race gone. I know people in their 50's who tell me of the time, of how they weren't allowed in town after dark were paid lower wages, or weren't even allowed to buy thier own home. One man told me how he had a permit to live in town, but had to go beg for permission so he could go see his family who lived on the out skirts of town.
Australias policies back in the late sixties early seventies would put any law in south africa to shame. there are worse stories, kids being taken from parents for no reason etc. and i mean thousands of kids. so if you think Australia isn't a racist country or anything bad thing were only done to people who are long dead, then you're a bigger idiot than i first thought.

Are you joking? Frankly, considering that us white folk (eg- our govt.) COULD just be COMPLETE assholes, not give them ANY land as they have been given (I'm not saying that couldn't have been more)...not to mention the buttload more financial benefits and educational schemes, work placement...etc they're offered as an ongoing "apology", for which they do little more than be of a certain race to receive...I think the govt has done all it's about to. Does that make up for atrocities commited by our ancestors to theirs, no, not by a long shot...however, you clearly misunderstood the situation I was referring to in my post...to make it clear, I was referring to not only indigenous australians, but tension between all races living here, appearing to be smaller by comparison, which I believe they are.
However, since we're on the topic, the parts of my statement pertaining to the people of which you speak - I was talking about the assholes that with as many things made available to them to give them a good start (better than white peeps of exactly the same financial profile), yet sit around with hateful attitudes which they endorse in their own children (hence the attitudes still existing today), jobless and loving it, while taxes pay them to do so. Gimme Gimme Gimme.
It's a fucking disgrace, and unfortunately, these people will go nowhere in life, and DO in fact perpetuate their side of the continuing tension between the remaining indigenous australians, and anglos in this country...and so on, and so on.
There ARE many indigenous Australians that HAVE made something of themselves, risen above all the bullshit, and are actually happy, successful people - and guess what? If you bring up the topic of Australian history in conversation with these guys/gals...do you think they come up with the same "well, all whites are cunts, end of story" bullshit that the aforementioned bludgers do? No. They're mature, non-racist people who have realised that crying about the past will only keep them there, and have adapted to the culture which has (albeit forceably) thrust itself upoon them. How do I know this? Two personal friends of mine, students, like me. Not to mention their family. Nothing more offered to them than others, starting from the same situation as all their people. The difference? They took advantage of what WAS offered to them, and theyre in the process of actually doing something with their lives. I respect this tremendously.
Holding onto hate has never given benefit to any of their people.

Yes, in the past...just as they were forced to ride down the back of public buses, and refused entry into certain establishments.
Does this happen any more? Certainly not any place near me...but then, you DO live in Tasmania, things may be a little different there.

I said the issues were long dead. which they largely are.
I never said there wasn't racial tension here, or racism for that matter...my first statement, the one you've actually quoted me on, clearly indicated that I though otherwise. However, I was speaking in comparison to the USA, where from what I've heard, racial issues are FAR more tense, and prevalent. As I also said, this could have been from the sheer capacity of people within the USA...so next time, read my fucking post correctly, and try to get it through your thick head before mouthing off in an attempt to bait me into an argument yet again, as always, as big an idiot as I KNOW you are, you fucking nitwit jerk.

Yes speaking of bludgers. I do recall you saying you was on the dole. And in this country Dole + stuedent = bludging cunt. And most of those people are children of people who were taken away from their parents given no education but basic reading and writing skills. And if they were lucky to get a job. it was at half the wages of what whites got, They saw their parents/grandparents work themselves to death for fuck all. Even if they managed to save enough to buy land they weren't allowed to. Shit these poor fucks weren't even allowed to vote until the late sixties.
They weren't even considered citizens. so if not being allowed to ride at the front of the bus was their only gripe, i'll probably agree with you. So if they are pissed at whites i don't blame them. especially stupid white fucks who receive the dole and a free education, who then have the hide to complain cause others aren't out working paying taxes. Moron, if you think this isn't a racist country you need to crawl out of your mothers basement more often, and have a look around. then maybe for once you might know what you're on about. stupid bludging racist gimp. O wait you're not racist some of your "friends" are black.

Hurry up

I'm a student with part time work, and a volunteer job. I recieve govt. assistance whilst I'm studying, not to mention, I saved, and paid for my course in full. the "dole" is what a person receives when theyre not studying, or working...so you're incorrect, yet again.

Regarding the majority of the REST of what you were saying, again, you're referring to the past of this country, a past that I have already acknowledged was not cool by me...

They have a right to be however they're going to be, I'm only saying that in a lot of situations, attitude doesn't exactly solve their problems...are you saying it DOES?
My only problem is with those that do NOTHING for themselves, and don't intend to, nothing to do with work status in particular. Whites, blacks, and others alike.

You're trying to put words in my mouth, yet again. I never said that.
...I myself moved out of MY mothers residence a long time ago, and for the majority of the time have went from one dead end job to another, supporting myself. If you want to call me out on receiving govt assistance while making something more of my life, simply so I can put more attention towards my studies...I am left with little recourse but to assume YOU'RE the one still living under their mothers wing, so when you get a taste of the real world yourself, perhaps you'll understand...perhaps not, you DO seem pretty dense and all.

Yes, there's no racial screening process when I choose my friends...why, is there for you? By the sound of it, you Tasmanians (judging by you at least) are a little backward in this regard...when you're referred to as the retarded cousins of the mainland, I usually think that's a little unfair, too bad people like you fall beneath even that expectation.


Stop trying to argue with me, Wu...

My apologies to those that actually wished to discuss the topic that started the thread, for the interruption.
As I initially said, my individual conparative perspective was all I could offer here, clearly some people lie in wait for an argument wherever they can attempt to prompt one.
I posted in here because I am dissapointed when I see racial tension and racism result in such acts, especially loss of life.
I will no longer continue running in circles with the idiot child, again, my apologies.
I'm done here.

O yes Ausstudy, yeah a real big difference between Aus study and the dole. :rolleyes:

Yeah 30 years ago thats way way in the past, way beyond living memory
of anyone.


eh. what a hypocrite. a man who is on the dole err i mean ausstudy. going on about people who goverment payments


Of course you have no recourse, you're a bludger living on welfare. Plus if i was you i'll get used to going from one dead job to another. Your level of intelligence would suggest you won't be good enough for anything else


Who said anything about "racial screening. i was talking about thinking what ever you say about blacks, no matter how ignorant is ok. Because you have "black friends". Moron who is from tasmania? i mention something about tasmania, so you assume i'm from there? What a backwards little gimp you are. But then again you are from sydney the gay capital of the southern hemisphere

.
Who is arguing with you? I'm telling you.:rolleyes:

Sorry i took so long, i got caught up watching csi

Sorry for yet another interruption, people, but there were some personal issues raised that I'd like to address.
Wu, There's no point revisiting points I've already made pertaining to the thread topic, sadly, you completely missed the point in your attempts to play the same old game you love to play with me, and any other member of the forum that makes you feel a little insecure about yourself.
You really DO have severe confidence issues don't you, troll?
You use Australian terminology, and you've made statements in the past indicating you were from tasmania. You've yet to tell me I was wrong, so I'll go ahead and assume I was correct...
You call me out for receiving govt. assistance while I study, as though what...you're going to embarrass me or something?
Not gonna happen.
The way I see it, there's two types of students here - those that receive govt assistance as per their right in this country (a right which is unfortunately abused by some) while they study, and those who live at home under the care of their parents, not having any real idea of financial burdens such as paying their own rent, bills, transport...etc. From your willingness to readily criticise those receiving any kind of govt. assistance, I can only assume you are from the latter group.
You make mention of my dead end jobs I've held as though I haven't just openly admitted the same in this very thread?
Yes, up until a short time ago, my qualifications didn't allow me to get into very worthwhile jobs. I went from one to another for the sole purpose of supporting myself, studying part time here and there while I could...I've never been the best student, and up until this point I've never made much of my life - I'm the first to admit this. So what, now that I choose to strive for something a little better you think that gives you the right to talk down to me?
I study, and I'm fucking GREAT at what I do. Having seen the shit you come out with, I can safely say and will end up with a career well beyond what a miserable little dolt like you could EVER hope for. I'm not required by law to do ANY work whatsoever, yet I work p/t to help me further develop my skills, and do volunteer work in order to contribute to my community.
What do you do? You're a doctor, helping many on a daily basis are you? A real philanthropist? I doubt it.
In fact, you're more than likely either unemployed and milking your parents for all they're worth, or you've stepped right out of school into whatever job would have you, as your complete lack of insight would seem to imply...You want to call me a racist - go right the fuck ahead, that says nothing other than the fact you've completely missed the point.
In closing, you're an ignorant little cunt that has no idea what the fuck they're talking about. You come in here to do nothing but pick fights, then TRY to talk down to others to stroke your own pitiful ego, and actually have the nerve but to call anyone but yourself a loser. Like I said, you have SEVERE confidence issues.
Get a life, you dildo...we're through.

Civil war was about states rights, slavery was a side note.

And I dont give a what color you are. Human garbage is human garbage.

It seems that one race has more than others. Mostly because they sit around waiting for someone to give them a handout and complaining how their ancestors were treated. And when one of their own makes something of themselves without gummit handouts they are called "Uncle Toms" I am not saying that slavery was right but get over it already.

I dont here the Chinese, Irish, Italians, Hispanics complaining and they were all treated badly when they came to this country. Fact is these folks put it together by themselves without the handouts.

I am half Sicilian. Know what Italy thinks of Sicily??? Cant say here. My other half is Irish. They werent treated very well when they came here either.

The Chinese were slaves for the railroads and the list could go on.

Intolerance is going to be the death of society.

can't help yourself, can you.



well no more

Cheeba, I know what you're talking about to some degree although it's a little different in the US. I equivicate the type of government assistance that you are receiving with a little something called a "student loan." It's apparent vagina head has no education or he would have understood as well. Our government is pretty ready to make life a little easier with grants and loans...although the university/various type of learning establishment can cause hang ups. Plus there are scholarships and grants for particular fields.

The volunteer work that you do, does that qualify you for grants and loans or do you just do it? (I'm not suggesting that you do it for any reason other than for the good work itself).

Also, my father is part of indigenous Americans. He's part Cherokee. When he went to college they offered him scholarships and grants because of it. He didn't take them, thinking that it wouldn't be right.

I just do it. I work a few days a week with something like your YMCA. It not only helps guide local youth down the right path, but gives them an affordable place to do more constructive things than just hang out. A lot of kids there in the same situation I used to be in, so I don't mind helping.
Not to mention, it's police operated, and you can't get a better referance than that.

Similar maybe...the price of my course was subsidised a little, as was my equipment. In this country, you can also recieve ongoing payments (something called austudy) while studying to assist you in general living and expenses. The more you work yourself, the less these payments become, they endorse actually earning it, and as it helps with my skills, I don't mind doing a night or two per week at my college restaurant, sure, I could work more, but I'd rather actually focus on my studies more...and having the oppertunity to do so is great, something I will rightfully use to my advantage.

Very respectable...nobodys race should completely pave their way, and I'm against attitudes to the contrary...just because I'm not part of a minority myself, does not mean that I can't see there's always two sides to things, and two kinds of people, of ANY race.

I see i am forbidden from commenting anyone on this subject matter. Pity people have to hide behind mods. but alas. people of such granduer as I are used to bein persicuted.

Maybe if you kept it a little more mature than just trying to shit-sling (as always) to make yourself feel better, you wouldn't have such a problem.
Better luck next time.

The biggest problem with the confederate flag is the fact that some people did use it as a symbol of racism. It all depends on why the person displaying it is displaying it. I've seen the confederate flag flown in the yard of many southereners and what about the General Lee? Dukes of Hazard woohoo! Anyway, unless those kids did something to make the other group think they were being racist they should be charged. Wow, you see a sticker and jump to a conclusion about somebody, you pre-judge somebody, you're prejudice. People suck.

Guess anybody "making fun" of the Irish with St. Pattys day garb is fair game for me to stomp from now on.

Yup, "hey! Look at them! Prejudice!!!! That makes it ok for us to do the same, and worse!!!".
Stupid people, regardless of race.
I say if you kill in anything other than when your life is directly in danger, you should die. There's no excuse for murder.

What abouit louis farakhan(sp) and his little mother ship bull shit. if a white man sprouted bullshit like him, he would have been jailed long ago. I'm all those hate crime laws the u.s brought in, but they should apply to everyone. Because if they don't, in the eyes of the law you have lessen the value of a persons life because of his race.

Actualy, If a big truck o' Baptists came up on me and hurt me, that would be a hate crime. I'd get to prosecute them, then sue the pants of them. It wouldn't necessarily be for the money, more so to show assholes like them I ain't gonna take no shit.

Oh, and I'm predominantly white.

We have a similar version of austudy. Heh, It's rather boringly called work study.

What I really wanted to say, also, is that you need to hook us up with some Cheebacheeba recipes, even if they're works in progress. A lot of us that can cook, could test them out...give you feedback...get it...feedback...ahem.