[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by joshaube

Haha, yes, I love to rant. I get caught up sometimes. I often write three times as much as I post, and go back and keep editing it down. That's why nearly all of my posts have the 'last edited' tag at the bottom.

Okay, I see where you are coming from more clearly. I really did think it was a case of, as you put it, wanting more Mirrormask. I thought you had missed the fact that it was not suppose to be a pure fantasy film. I misjudged you.

Note what Roderick has posted above. He makes a good point. The film is very intricate. Not only do you have Ofelia attempting to escape her real-life situation through a fantasy, but her real-life setting itself mirrors that of a fantasy. You have all of the players. Both are equally as dark. Ofelia is central in her fantasy, while she is nearly excluded from the "fantasy" taking place in the real world.

I noticed you used the word 'cliche' in an above post, referencing these real-life scenes. That's what a fantasy always is, cliche, in one sense or another. Isn't everything, if just a tad?

I can see where you are coming from, for sure. Sometimes it does feel as though they are elongating the real-life scenes a tad too much. Taking what seems like it should have been a small addition, and creating a wonderful story that expands far beyond the intended runtime. Noting Roderick, I realize that the film is perhaps not as Ofelia-centric as I had believed. The General becomes another important character, playing out his own 'fantasy.'

I watched Brazil earlier this year, and I would say, I much prefer the ending of Pan's Labyrinth.

It's so refreshing to have movie discussions... I wish my friends were as passionate. :)

What's tricky about this conversation at the point that it's come to is that, ultimately, I agree with both of you. I really do.

Pan's Labyrinth is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen.

I agree. Absolutely stunning. No arguing there. Every single scene was beautiful, be it fantasy or "reality."

The reality scenes are more horrific by far than the fantasy scenes and Capitan Vidal is a villain of the highest order.

Yes, it's true. He's a villain in real life and in fact, he is larger-than-life (I used the word "cliche" because he is that cliche villain "of the highest order"). That he is the villain in reality I found interesting because he is more a greater threat than any of the villains that she has in her fantasies. Also, being set against a 1940s beseiged Spain, you are going to get a different kind of elevated horror - civil unrest as well as familial strife. But, still, I would argue that the reasons why her fantasies are so dark is because her reality is so incredibly dark.

A little girl who doesn't quite feel a part of her own family - because her real family is searching for her

Uhm, yes, the first part of that statement is fairly obvious, though I'm not sure what you mean by the second part of that statement... By "real family" are you talking about within her fantasy?

A Mother who will do anything to keep her family alive - including take protection from a monster

Yup. Another cliched character out of fantasy. Beautifully tragic.

A Master of control who faces a little girl who step into a world he cannot even conceive of

Yup...

A guide to the other world who deceives in order to test

Oh, yes, I LOVED this character as an element to her fantasy. I thought that he was brilliant and well-done.

Ultimately it is about sacrifice and faith with an almost Brazil-like finale

Yes, and yes. I actually liked the ending a lot and thought that it was the only way that the movie could end.



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I think that the issue with the current discussion is that you guys might think that I'm disagreeing with you or that there was something in the movie that I intrinsically missed or don't appreciate.

Quite the contrary - All of the points that you guys bring up, as per the structure of the film as well as the merits of the direction, I understand purpose, plot, and means.

But it just didn't work for me.

It's funny because I often have these kind of discussions with the few people I know who actually LOVE movies. When I say that I don't like something, the assumption on their part is that, obviously there was something incredibly mindblowingly integral and important that I must have MISSED! No. The truth is, I'm a huge movie-dork. I am. And I close-watch, close-read, close-analyze film to the point that it drives my friends crazy.

I get the structures and archetypes that Pan's Labyrinth is creating, playing on, and revelling in.

But, ultimately, I found it uneven, disappointing, and boring at times. And while I could assume meaning, there were still times when I was asking, "What's the point, here?" not so much that I missed it, but that I thought that I wasn't a fan with how he structured the "reality." I can see why. It's a directorial choice. But I don't have to like it.


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Edit:

Josh, I just noticed that you weren't a big fan of Night Watch... It's funny because I saw your post before reading it and was like, "Crap, I don't like THAT film either," but then I read it and agree with you whole-heartedly.

The whole thing... and it's mythology, really confused me. I found myself paying really close attention in the beginning. I had to re-watch some parts to make sense of what was going on. It wasn't described that well. But, nearing the end, everything sort of starts to make sense. You get an idea of how things work, and I'm sure it will be expanded on in the upcoming features.

Honestly, that part totally lost me... I thought it was interesting! And fascinating!!! But I wasn't sure exactly how that wound up tying into the film (which bothered me while watching it).

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I'm glad I'm not the only one.

ha