John Carpenter

[Zero]

OK - in response to Urge's admonition to push more interesting conversations - I want to pick up a topic that's been often discussed here (so PLEASE DON'T give me all the references to previous discussions - which in and of itself kills a lot of new conversations in their tracks). Also, I suspect that this should be in "filmmakers" but i noticed that forum seems filled with folks actually making films. . . and since JC's "best" work was in the 'modern' period (i.e., nothing coming out that i know of) it seems to fit here.


So, here's my contention: John Carpenter has an amazing imagination but only limited ability to execute it on film. I would argue that virtually every Carpenter film - with the possible exception of The Thing - really fails to visually or dramatically live up to the idea's potential. Halloween could also be an exception - but I think ultimately it fits into my hypothesis.

For me - the biggest examples of this disconnect between idea and execution are Prince of Darkness and Big Trouble in Little China (though I think virtually every other film - including Vampire$ and esp. In the Mouth of Madness).

Now, I don't think this can just be 'budget' constraints - or if it is then JC has an inability to translate his 'vision' into low budget aesthetics (i mean think about Texas Chainsaw Massacre as a low budget but HIGHLY EFFECTIVE visual piece of filmmaking).

Any takers?

[Yellow Jacket]

I do love Halloween and The Thing, but thought Ghosts om Mars was entertaining, but was a disappointment for a Carpenter flick. Now, I do love In the Mouth of Madness, but that fell apart at times. I have yet to see Vampires, but that's more and less becuase I'm not much of a fan of vampire flicks (besides Dracula and Nosferatu).

[urgeok]

i think Carpenter started with such a big bang that it was hard to maintain the level of quality.

I collect Carpenter films. Have everything he's done from Dark Star up (with the exception of one made for TV movie)

Ghosts of Mars (2001) weak effort - poorly written - no budget
Vampires (1998) - weak effort - poorly written
Escape from L.A. (1996) - weak tired effort.
Village of the Damned (1995) - cant remember a thing from this one.
In the Mouth of Madness (1994) - didnt like it
Body Bags (1993) (TV) (segments "Gas Station, The" and "Hair")
so so anthology
Memoirs of an Invisible Man (1992) - enjoyed this one
They Live (1988) - really enjoyed this one
Prince of Darkness (1987) - not bad - not great
Big Trouble in Little China (1986) - really enjoyed this one
Starman (1984) - suffered by using a known actor in the roll
Christine (1983) - good spin on a so so King effort (strong performances)
The Thing (1982) - excellent
Escape from New York (1981) - excellent
The Fog (1980) - excellent
Elvis (1979/I) (TV) - very good
Someone's Watching Me! (1978) (TV) (i havent seen this)
Halloween (1978) - excellent
Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) - excellent
Dark Star (1974) - very enjoyable.


i would say that Carpenter suffered from a general shift in cinema largely because of the fact that (as i'v said before) the horror genre hasnt been taken seriously since the 70's. Now it's just a cheap cash cow - people making garbage films that will still make money on the rentals (most never see the theatres)
And again - i blame the 80s home video invasion for that - and the trend of cheap slasher movies that kids will rent if it has cool cover art.

so where is the incentive for making a mind blowing influential horror film ? why would the studios bother when their garbage still makes money by using no name directors - no name actors and a shit budget.... for straight to home video markets.


i think Carpenter has become an endangered species - he's a product of the 70's .. so are many of the other struggling horror directors.

I think its a fucking shame.

[alkytrio666]

MY general problem with Carpenter- although I think he's one of the best horror directors- is his music.

We all probably saw Halloween first; I know I did. Great! Good music, classic and chilling. However, when you start watching more and more of his films you realize that Carpenter does so much of his own music, and as a result...well, it sucks. It's all just Halloween rehashed, and it sounds like shit.

The only music by him, besides Halloween, that I enjoyed, was Assault ('76).

I HATED the music to The FOg. So repetitive and annoying and BLACH!

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by urgeok
Someone's Watching Me! (1978) (TV) (i havent seen this)

ok (for a tv movie)

[Juicy Jon]

Whats wrong with Prince of Darkness? I loved it

[The_Return]

Originally posted by urgeok
so where is the incentive for making a mind blowing influential horror film ? why would the studios bother when their garbage still makes money by using no name directors - no name actors and a shit budget.... for straight to home video markets.

Contrary to what you may think, you're not the only one who thinks that way, and therein lies the "incentive for making a mind blowing influential horror film". There are filmmakers out there that realise that the genre is going/gone to shit, and want to fix it. The problem is simply that their films wouldnt sell, so Hollywood wont promote them. I think it's up to filmmakers like Rob Zombie, Eli Roth, Alexandre Aja and [to some extent] Brad Anderson, who already have a bit of track record and selling power, to revive the genre. If they continue to make good, horror films on a modest budget, I think we would see a rise in the overall quality of the genre VERY fast. It would open the eyes of Hollywood producers, they would realise that good horror films can make money, and funding would start going to other filmmakers with a love for the genre. I mean, look at some of the crappy DTV horror releases of the last few years. Even though most of them are crap, you can still tell that the filmmakers have a love for the genre, and that the films could have been great with the kind of funding a film like, say, The Grudge had. All Souls Day for example: Awful film, but it had a potentially great concept behind it. With a couple millon bucks to work with, I really think it could have been great.


Anyway, back to the original topic. Im a big fan of Carpenter, though I agree his films are often not as good as they could be. Films like The Thing, Halloween, The Fog and Assault on Precinct 13 are great example of filmaking genius. I loved In the Mouth of Madness, but it certainly had some weak moments compared to what we know Carpenter is capable of.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The_Return
Even though most of them are crap, you can still tell that the filmmakers have a love for the genre, and that the films could have been great with the kind of funding a film like, say, The Grudge had.

i have to disagree that most directors have love for the genre.

Rob Zombie for sure ... he has huge love for it ..

but most of the others ... a lot of them that made their name with horror are tired of it .. but are pigionholed.

the straight to video guys .. many of them are made to direct these crap horrors to cut their teeth on.
no loss to the company if the films bomb ... the video market picks them up.

The Grudge/The Ring/Dark Water .... that is the wave that suprised me ... that hollywood picked up on that j-horror wagon .. but i guess they were making big bucks in asia and $$$ draws the movie people like flys to shit.

they smell money, then milk the new trend - wring every last penny out of it and leave it dying on the floor .. spent and mutilated.

[The_Return]

Originally posted by urgeok
i have to disagree that most directors have love for the genre.

Rob Zombie for sure ... he has huge love for it ..

but most of the others ... a lot of them that made their name with horror are tired of it .. but are pigionholed.

the straight to video guys .. many of them are made to direct these crap horrors to cut their teeth on.
no loss to the company if the films bomb ... the video market picks them up.

The Grudge/The Ring/Dark Water .... that is the wave that suprised me ... that hollywood picked up on that j-horror wagon .. but i guess they were making big bucks in asia and $$$ draws the movie people like flys to shit.

they smell money, then milk the new trend - wring every last penny out of it and leave it dying on the floor .. spent and mutilated.

Perhaps "most" was an overstatement. I do belive that alot of directors do have a love for the genre, and I think it really shows. Compare The Skeleton Key and All Souls Day for example. Skeleton Key had a big budget, big name stars, and did fairly well at the box office. It admittedly turned out better than most modern horror films, but you could tell that Softley was in it more for the payoff than actually wanting to make a good film. It didnt have that something that someone with a love for the genre would have added. All Souls Day, on the flip side, obviously had no budget, the biggest name involved was Jeffery Combs, and I'd bet it hardly even broke even. The film was undeniably bad, but you could really tell that Kasten wanted to make a good film. He tried things that hadnt been done, and they failed. If he had the multi-million dollar studio backing that Skeleton Key had, however, it could have been a great addition to the recent wave of zombie films.

[urgeok]

Originally posted by The_Return
Perhaps "most" was an overstatement. I do belive that alot of directors do have a love for the genre, and I think it really shows. Compare The Skeleton Key and All Souls Day for example. Skeleton Key had a big budget, big name stars, and did fairly well at the box office. It admittedly turned out better than most modern horror films, but you could tell that Softley was in it more for the payoff than actually wanting to make a good film. It didnt have that something that someone with a love for the genre would have added. All Souls Day, on the flip side, obviously had no budget, the biggest name involved was Jeffery Combs, and I'd bet it hardly even broke even. The film was undeniably bad, but you could really tell that Kasten wanted to make a good film. He tried things that hadnt been done, and they failed. If he had the multi-million dollar studio backing that Skeleton Key had, however, it could have been a great addition to the recent wave of zombie films.

i thionk - sadly - that they guys who truely love the genre end up making these little backyard films - that although entheusiastic - end up being unwatchable because of rank amateuristic performances, inexperienced fimmakers, and zero budget.

and lets face it - not everyone who loves the genre is good at it either ...

i can appreciate their efforts .. i just cant enjoy them.


skeleton key .. yeah that was just another one - going through the motions. zero passion.