what do u think god or satan looks like

[misterX]

well well mister gay-0-washer and his power ranger bangle/wrist bands

[Egekrusher]

Go away. Please.

[Stingy Jack]

Well, MisterX just basically came back and spoke as if everything we had discussed didn't really happen. I gave him the definition of scientific "Theory", and I already said that, to a scientist, "Theory" is about as close to fact as you can get, without actually being a fact or a law. Scientific theories, if you'll go back to the definitions I provided (from textbooks and dictionaries, not my head) are hypotheses that have been extensively tested and relied upon with high degrees of confidence. It is more than a mere "guess", which you insist on using "theory" to mean. The layman uses the word "theory" in the same way he uses "guess". But that is not the way I am using it.

As far as the Big Bang goes, there is a LOT of evidence to support the theory ... which is why it is a scientific theory and not just a guess. One of the simplest bits of evidence is the fact that the matter we observe in space is moving away from us. By simple reasoning if you play the universe in reverse, the matter would move toward us, and ultimately converge at a common point. Something sent this matter hurtling outward ... this something we refer to as the Big Bang.

And how is it that you know for a fact that the moon was not formed by an object striking the Earth while it was in it's magma state? Sure, my source is five years old (and I'm not about to argue that that is not a significant amount of time for a scientific document to be outdated), but I listen to and read the news on a daily basis. I have yet to hear the announcement: "Astronomers have discovered the truth behind the formation of the moon." You know FOR A FACT that my source was wrong. So, how? Let's see if you really know the difference between fact and theory.

As far as us not being able to change our destiny because God already knows our future ... well, that's simple. Of course, we're talking about God, here, and I don't claim to understand the nature of something that doesn't exist, but I am working from a few assumptions about God's knowledge: 1) It is divine and perfect. What God knows to happen, WILL happen. It will not change. 2) If God told us what will happen, it will still not change. And I know God doesn't leave messages for us in fortune cookies. That was an hypothetical situation employed to show how we do not control our own fates (no free will). This idea is more dramatically shown in the case where "what if we KNOW our fate?" It doesn't matter. Still can't change it. Whether or know your fate or not does not change the idea that you cannot choose your own destiny. If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. But I was assuming that his knowledge IS perfect, and that he never lies.

[fattybluetit]

i take my hat off and cheesy walls balls to you sir you really are the king of the long post

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by fattybluetit
i take my hat off and cheesy walls balls to you sir you really are the king of the long post

LOL! Not Walls Balls again!!!

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by misterX
how wrong you are. sorry to act like i know it all, ubt hey! when ya do, ya do.

Okay ... This sentence all by itself is my cue to stop debating with you. Anyone who has any education worth its salt never says that they know it all. Socrates said that the only reason the oracle stated he was the wisest man was because he knew that he knew nothing ... whereas everyone else thought they knew everything. All this does is show me that you are too ignorant to even realize that you are ignorant (just like we ALL are ignorant, to a certain extent.) You've already demonstrated that you're the type of guy who will be shown evidence that contradicts what he currently believed, and is too arrogant to change his belief in light of the evidence (I am referring to the "Moon" reference I posted.) You merely dismissed the evidence as "wrong", to keep from feeling/sounding stupid. When in actuality, by doing this, you made yourself look more stupid than you would have had you admitted to receiving knowledge that you did not previously have. I admit when I am wrong, and am smart enough to reevaluate what I previously thought to be true when I receive new information. As soon as you give me the sources that you say prove elephants possess a conscious awareness (not instinct) of their own mortality, then I will concede the point to you and rethink my ideas. That is, if the source is both reliable and valid (as in: don't post some crap from website written by an unknown elephant fan who has no educated knowledge on the fundamentals of Biology.) Only then will I continue with this with you. Otherwise, I know from the sentence in your above quote that anything I say will go in one ear and out the other, valid and reasonable, or not. If it doesn't jive with what you believe, you won't listen to or consider it. You'll just pretend you never heard it, and keep on saying the same thing over and over. It's pointless to continue.

[Egekrusher]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Okay ... This sentence all by itself is my cue to stop debating with you. Anyone who has any education worth its salt never says that they know it all. Socrates said that the only reason the oracle stated he was the wisest man was because he knew that he knew nothing ... whereas everyone else thought they knew everything. All this does is show me that you are too ignorant to even realize that you are ignorant (just like we ALL are ignorant, to a certain extent.) You've already demonstrated that you're the type of guy who will be shown evidence that contradicts what he currently believed, and is too arrogant to change his belief in light of the evidence (I am referring to the "Moon" reference I posted.) You merely dismissed the evidence as "wrong", to keep from feeling/sounding stupid. When in actuality, by doing this, you made yourself look more stupid than you would have had you admitted to receiving knowledge that you did not previously have. I admit when I am wrong, and am smart enough to reevaluate what I previously thought to be true when I receive new information. As soon as you give me the sources that you say prove elephants possess a conscious awareness (not instinct) of their own mortality, then I will concede the point to you and rethink my ideas. That is, if the source is both reliable and valid (as in: don't post some crap from website written by an unknown elephant fan who has no educated knowledge on the fundamentals of Biology.) Only then will I continue with this with you. Otherwise, I know from the sentence in your above quote that anything I say will go in one ear and out the other, valid and reasonable, or not. If it doesn't jive with what you believe, you won't listen to or consider it. You'll just pretend you never heard it, and keep on saying the same thing over and over. It's pointless to continue.

Right on man. I like you.

[Stingy Jack]

You're pretty cool yourself. :)

[misterX]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack



I have yet to hear the announcement: "Astronomers have discovered the truth behind the formation of the moon."

As far as us not being able to change our destiny because God already knows our future ... well, that's simple. Of course, we're talking about God, here, and I don't claim to understand the nature of something that doesn't exist, but I am working from a few assumptions about God's knowledge: 1) It is divine and perfect. What God knows to happen, WILL happen. It will not change. 2) If God told us what will happen, it will still not change. And I know God doesn't leave messages for us in fortune cookies. That was an hypothetical situation employed to show how we do not control our own fates (no free will). This idea is more dramatically shown in the case where "what if we KNOW our fate?" It doesn't matter. Still can't change it. Whether or know your fate or not does not change the idea that you cannot choose your own destiny. If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. But I was assuming that his knowledge IS perfect, and that he never lies.

well lets see. the way you spoke about theformation of themoon it indicated you DID know how it formed. and lets see.....what else o yes, you claim god doesnt excist, yet you then go on to talk about gods knowledge. and no you haven't explained how by someone knowing what someone isgoingto do is taking away there free will to do what ever they chose to do. "if god told us wha twill happen"? wtf do you mean? why all the if's? the thing is god hasn't told us whats going to happen. and if he did HOW do you know we can't change it? you talk in absolutes about a subject where there can be no absolutes. you're trying to make the rules or laws up as you go along! You say that " If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. " you see, he didn't tell me what my future held so again your argyment is redundant. i'm sure you're used to that aren't you? all you need to do is to stop talking about hypothetical's as if they were fact. you contradict yourself so many time it has stopped being funny

[orangestar]

Originally posted by misterX
well lets see. the way you spoke about theformation of themoon it indicated you DID know how it formed. and lets see.....what else o yes, you claim god doesnt excist, yet you then go on to talk about gods knowledge. and no you haven't explained how by someone knowing what someone isgoingto do is taking away there free will to do what ever they chose to do. "if god told us wha twill happen"? wtf do you mean? why all the if's? the thing is god hasn't told us whats going to happen. and if he did HOW do you know we can't change it? you talk in absolutes about a subject where there can be no absolutes. you're trying to make the rules or laws up as you go along! You say that " If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. " you see, he didn't tell me what my future held so again your argyment is redundant. i'm sure you're used to that aren't you? all you need to do is to stop talking about hypothetical's as if they were fact. you contradict yourself so many time it has stopped being funny

I've read your guy's argument, and here's what it sounds like you're saying:

We have no free will at all. God is making me type this right now, and there is nothing I can do to change anything God says will happen because it's my destiny or whatever and he's perfect so It is, how they say, his way or the highway.

So if we have no free will, then why isnt everyone Christian? Why didnt God just MAKE everyone believe in him? Did he pick and choose people like me and Stingy and Ege to burn in hell for all eternity, because we dont believe in him? Seems like a pretty fucked up God. Not so forgiving after all.