what do u think god or satan looks like

[KRUGERKID13]

ok ya know what misterx lets just stop wasting bandwith and move on

[misterX]

yes. you're right ;ets not waste bandwith. someone might be trying to post something really important, like
"which hand is best to jerk off with, lefty or righty

[KRUGERKID13]

your not making this easy

[misterX]

i wasn't trying to be diffcult, i was just reffering to all these stupid "v's" polls

[Rebel Yell]

I always imagine Satan being extremely handsome. Nice jet black pomp, a soul patch, nicely trimmed sideburns, black eyes, well defined bone structure, and I do believe he dresses much like the Reverend Horton Heat.

Yes.

He is extremely handsome.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by misterX
well lets see. the way you spoke about theformation of themoon it indicated you DID know how it formed. and lets see.....what else o yes, you claim god doesnt excist, yet you then go on to talk about gods knowledge. and no you haven't explained how by someone knowing what someone isgoingto do is taking away there free will to do what ever they chose to do. "if god told us wha twill happen"? wtf do you mean? why all the if's? the thing is god hasn't told us whats going to happen. and if he did HOW do you know we can't change it? you talk in absolutes about a subject where there can be no absolutes. you're trying to make the rules or laws up as you go along! You say that " If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. " you see, he didn't tell me what my future held so again your argyment is redundant. i'm sure you're used to that aren't you? all you need to do is to stop talking about hypothetical's as if they were fact. you contradict yourself so many time it has stopped being funny

Okay, this goes against my better judgement ... but here's my reply. When talking about God, you really can't help but to use "ifs" and hypotheticals. I was working with the idea of god that was given to me by the Christians here ... that he is omniscient. I know that omniscient means "all-knowing." Therefore, if God knows all, then he must know your future. I state that as a simple course of logic. If "this," then "that." As to how I KNOW you couldn't change your future if God knows what it is ... well ... because God knows your future. Your future is laid out for you in his mind, and you have to play it out according to what is in his head (I hate talking about God personified, but I do it for the sake of simplicity). The reason why I say you HAVE to play it out according to what is in his head is because if you did something that god didn't know you would do, then god would not be all-knowing. Hence, this is why I say you cannot have free will if there is an omniscient being out there. Now, I am going to use a hypothetical situation again. The reason for this is because it demonstrates how free will is an illusion when there enters an omniscient being. You go through life, thinking you have free will because you cannot see the future. You can make small predictions ... like, if I don't pay the electric bill, they will cut off my power. But you don't truly know the consequences of all of your actions, or what situations you will face in the future and the choices you will make when you face them. And you think that you have the freedom to make any choice you wish. That is how you live your life now.

Enter: Someone who knows everything you will do in the future, and all of the choices you will make. This guy just starts hanging around your apartment, smiling whenever you do something. You finally ask him: "Why are you smiling?" And he says, "I knew you were going to do that." At first you wouldn't believe him. Surely, you're not THAT predictable. So, you ask him for proof. You tell him to write down what you will say in the next five minutes and put it in his pocket. He does so, then you remain silent for four minutes and 58 seconds. At the last second you say "Strawberry." Sure enough, he pulls out a piece of paper that says: "Strawberry." You might be amused and a little creeped out ... but would dismiss it as a parlor trick. He continues with his annoying "I knew you would do that" as the days go by and it really starts to bug you. Finally, you ask him for real proof. No little party trick. He is to go home for two hours and write down everything you will do in his absence. He grins and says "I'll write it down before I leave and leave it in this envelope for you to read when the two hours is up." And you say, "What if I read it BEFORE the two hours is up?" And he responds "You won't." He writes down what you will do for the next two hours and leaves the envelope on the counter before heading out the door. Two hours pass, and you open the envelope. Sure enough, everything you did was detailed exactly on those sheets of paper. You run to his house, and ask him to write down how the rest of your life will go. He says: "You don't really want me to do that. It would feel as if you weren't making any real choices anymore." But you insist, and he does so. You read the book, and then ... suddenly you know everything you are going to do. And your life from then on feels as if you are a slave to the life written down for you in the book. You can't break away from it, you can't change it, you just follow the story. If anything, not just God, but anything knows your future (and I say "know" in the true sense. As in, they know it. They are not wrong), then you do not have free will. Right now, you only think you do because YOU not going gives you the illusion of free will. You are destined to play out your life as it is written in that book, whether you read it or not.

Now, you say the difference here is that God didn't tell you what your future held. This is true, which is why the illusion of free will is still with you. Right now, you THINK you have free will ... but you really don't (if, as you say, an omniscient god exists). And you would KNOW you don't if god told you. The only thing that happens if god tells you your life is you go from thinking you have free will, to feeling like a slave to your life's story. Your life doesn't change. Your future doesn't change. Any of the choices that you make or would have made do not change. The illusion of free will disappears.

That's about as simple as I can get it. Does anybody follow what I'm saying here?

[Egekrusher]

I never had any question as to what you were saying in the first place.

And as to the original question- I believe that if there is a God, he has no true form. He is more an energy being than anything else.

As for Satan- As stated before, he is a trickster, a prankster, very sly and cunning. I'm guessing that he would be very handsome, dresses in Armani suits, and is very, very charming. The thing is, the devil can't MAKE you do anything, he can only try to talk you into doing it, so he has to use every resource at hand.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by misterX
ok. now with the quote by Socrates. just because someone says something catchie, doesn't make it true. and as far as the moon goes. if the earth was hit by a object big enough and hard enough to displace a mass as big as the moon it would have destroyed it. and lets say it didn't destroy it. if the earth was hit by a object hard enough to make a mass as big as that break the gravitaional pull of the earth. the earth would not be able to hold it in place. the moon would totaly escape the earths pull. its just simple reasoning. but most atheist are too retarded, to think for themselves, you sit there and absorb anything that would try and discredit the excistance of god like the blind sheep you are. same with the elephants. i'm still looking for that proof, because it was a number of years since i read about it. But in the mean time think about it. do you think animals with as much intelligence as a elephant or dolphin etc. don't know they will die? and not just from a accident or from a predator? come on you stupid atheist sheep think for yourself for once. and speaking of making claims with out any proof. how do you know god doesnt excist? like you claimed in your post? o and i don't see you replying to my discrediting of you on the subject of the constatine matter. lol@ your claims. get your facts right. now you're the one who can be called ignorant. since you believe you are the only one to state claims, asumptions, theories, stories and myths as fact. and by the way trying to insult my intelligence is just a sign that you are truely beaten in this debate. awww insults the last resort of a beaten man.

The quote by Socrates ... you don't think it's true? You don't think that people, in general, are ignorant to a certain extent? Do you even KNOW what ignorant means? Ignorant simply means "lacking knowledge." It is OBVIOUS that people are ignorant. Socrates merely states that he is wise because he REALIZES he is ignorant, as opposed to everyone he spoke with who thought they were not. It is TRUE. It's happening right now. I realize that I am ignorant ... about MANY things. YOU, on the other hand, stated that you know it all. I would test you on this by asking you questions, but you would just run to the internet and look up the answers. But, we both know that you CAN'T know it all. If you did, you would be pretty fucking famous.
There are things you DO NOT KNOW, hence you are IGNORANT ... just like everybody else. Capice?


As far as the moon thing goes, you know .... I gave you the theory from an ASTRONOMY text written by ASTRONOMERS. And still you think it is bullshit. The Earth would not have been destroyed because it was in it's magma state. A liquid state. Getting hit, or receiving "a glancing blow" as the source stated, would not destroy it. And as far as the moon escaping the Earth's pull ... they tested this theory with computers ... and if you go back and read the source, you will see where I mention computer simulations (Fig. 8.27). I would post the images from the simulation, but my scanner is missing it's cable. Anyway, the moon is held in place not just by the gravitational pull of the Earth, but by that of every other nearby object in the solar system. Particularly the sun. The piece, according to the pictures, begins more like a spray as it is ripped from the side of the Earth. This spray floats off, and forms into a small sphere itself. I will type the caption for Figure 8.27: "This sequence shows a simulated collision between the Earth and an object the size of Mars. The sequence proceeds top to bottom, and zooms out dramatically. The arrow in the final frame shows the newly formed moon." DID it happen this way? I don't know. It seems reasonable, and I trust that the scientists know what they're doing.

Then you say: "Don't you think that animals as intelligent as elephants or dolphins don't know that they will die? And not by accident or some predator?" No, I don't think they do know. I mean, dolphins sure do spend a lot of time tangling themselves up in fishermen's nets. But really ... you tell me to think for myself. Well, I could sit around and make up what I know about elephants and dolphins ... but I would rather someone teach me. That way, I won't be wrong.

I don't KNOW that god doesn't exist ... just like I don't KNOW that in some other dimension lives the giant, flubbering shit-hill of Aldretch. I just don't believe they do.

The Constantine thing ... that wasn't even my argument. I had nothing to do with any of that. I wasn't even online at the time! Why should I give that point to you when I never argued with you about it in the first place? You say you descredited me with your Constantine thing ... What the hell? Are you confused?

I never stated any theories, myths, or assumptions as fact. If you are referring to the god's "omniscience" thing, go back to my previous thread. I was working from what YOU claimed to be fact: "God is omniscient". Even though I believe that is not true, I worked from that point to show that IF that was true, THEN you cannot have free will. I said IF it was true. Not that it WAS true.

I never called you names. I said you were ignorant. This is a fact. Just as I and everyone else in the world are ignorant. You're just one of those people who refuse to believe it. And I didn't say you were stupid. I said you are making yourself sound stupid. There is a difference. It's not like I said: "You stupid Christian", like you did to me in your last reply. I also said you were arrogant. This, too, is a fact. You say I insulted you as a last resort? What? I have made valid points this whole time which you have yet to refute. I can't help it that you are unable to comprehend my argument about no free will with an omniscient being. I tried and tried to make it as simple as possible. I am not ON my last resort. I am not even past my FIRST resort, since you have yet to refute it or challenge it adequately.

Then you wonder why I don't go out and experiment all this stuff myself and resort to books for my knowledge. Did I get this right? Why do I use books to get my knowledge?





Do I really have to answer this?

[Egekrusher]

Exactly.

If we had to rely on first-hand experience for all of our knowledge, humans, as a whole, would not be where we are today. We'd still be living in caves, afraid to go outside because we don't know what's out there. We wouldn't know what's out there because we didn't listen to our ancestors, the people that came before us, or even the people who currently live around us.

His argument holds no validity. Without books and the research and knowledge of other people, we'd still be cavemen.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Egekrusher
Exactly.

If we had to rely on first-hand experience for all of our knowledge, humans, as a whole, would not be where we are today. We'd still be living in caves, afraid to go outside because we don't know what's out there. We wouldn't know what's out there because we didn't listen to our ancestors, the people that came before us, or even the people who currently live around us.

His argument holds no validity. Without books and the research and knowledge of other people, we'd still be cavemen.

Thank you! And by the way (this is for misterX), the "sheep" metaphor is for Christians, as stated in the Bible. "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want".