Cannibal Holocaust vs. Men Behind The Sun

[Bastet]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

Yeah the Americans (well General MacArthur) apparently gave UNIT 731 a free pass on prosecution of warcrimes in exchange for the info gained from their experiments.

This is allegedly also true about the nazi scientists brought over on Operation Paper clip..

Cheers for that-couldn't remember the Number of the unit in China.
While we are comparing The Germans and the Japanese, I read a book on the psychology of war crimes-actually a history of Auswicz and it compared the motivations for the atrocities carried out by the Russians, Germans and Japanese and tried to considder the general reasons for the actions of soldiers from each country. The findings actually made sense;
The Russians acted on their orders because they were too terrified of the consequences of not following orders.

The Japanese Acted unquestioning on orders as they believed they came from their emperor and therefor it would be a disshonour not to obey.

Of the three countries, it is believed that only the German soldiers (of all rank) had freedom to choose their actions and to question orders, but still carried out attrocities- That is why the excuse of following orders is never accepted as a defense by the war crimes comission.

[Ferox13]

Originally Posted by Bastet

Of the three countries, it is believed that only the German soldiers (of all rank) had freedom to choose their actions and to question orders, but still carried out attrocities- That is why the excuse of following orders is never accepted as a defense by the war crimes comission.

Why do you say the Germans (unlike the Russians) were not 'terrified of the consequences of not following orders'? - wouldn't that mean a court marshal and posible execution? (though I know little of Military Law)


Were rank and file or even non-commissioner Nazis ever procecuted for war crimes? I know that the Nurenberg trials were just the leaders and the guys that Simon Wiesenthal or Mossad tracked down wer the imfamous ones.

[Bastet]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

Why do you say the Germans (unlike the Russians) were not 'terrified of the consequences of not following orders'? - wouldn't that mean a court marshal and posible execution? (though I know little of Military Law)


Were rank and file or even non-commissioner Nazis ever procecuted for war crimes? I know that the Nurenberg trials were just the leaders and the guys that Simon Wiesenthal or Mossad tracked down wer the imfamous ones.

I was referring to a psychological study that was made. It is very generalised, but did look in-depth particularly at the Germn motivations. The idea being that the Germans had more free-will. They were often swept up in the propoganda and were brainwashed into believing in whathey did. But ultimately they had the choice.
But interesting point.
Some of the rank and file Germans were bought to book. There is one that has been tracked to Austria at the moment, but the Austrians refuse to let him be deported for trial as he is in his 90's

[milktoaste]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

Yeah the Americans (well General MacArthur) apparently gave UNIT 731 a free pass on prosecution of warcrimes in exchange for the info gained from their experiments.

This is allegedly also true about the nazi scientists brought over on Operation Paper clip..

It's no small wonder they don't teach this stuff in elementary school.

[Ferox13]

Thats interesting Bastet - have u a link or name of the study and when it was made.

[Bastet]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

Thats interesting Bastet - have u a link or name of the study and when it was made.

It was a Book that I read about Auswicz about 5 years ago. It was written with honesty and compassion. I found it sad, but fascinating as it looked at the psychology, but also the history of the Labour and Death camps-Only three of the camps were actually death camps; Treblinka, Sobibor and Auswics. Despite what people believe, Belsen was actually a labour camp.
The book also talked about the original portable gas chambers and the way they were 'tried out' on those with mental or physical disability first.
Its also interesting that the Gas Chamners were developed as a quick and faceless alternative to firing squads as it was felt that by making German soldiers see their victims before they shot them, this caused unnecessary stress to them.

I have been lucky enough in my job to work with some of the survivors of these terrible times- I nursed 2 ukranian gentlemen for many years who would beecome very angry if questioned about the numbers tattooed on their arms. One once explained that they were the people who the germans used to clean out the gas chambers and remove the dead before the next lot were hearded in.
On a happier note I nursed a B52 Bomber pilot and he was a truely amazing gentleman whom I could talk to for hours. My grandfather was one of the few men who survived the Normandy Landings. These people are long since gone, but it helped me to realise that these were real people with real histories and lives.
Will stop rambling now, but will try to find the title of the book-there was also a TV programme to accompany it

xx

[Ferox13]

Good stuff.

I saw a great documentry about the homosexuals who were sent to the camps. It was worse for them in some ways and after the way they never received the compassion the other victims did and in some cases were sent BACK to prison as homosexuality was still illegal in Germany at the time.

Though they weren't part of the final solution a lot of them died in the camps.

[Bastet]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

Good stuff.

I saw a great documentry about the homosexuals who were sent to the camps. It was worse for them in some ways and after the way they never received the compassion the other victims did and in some cases were sent BACK to prison as homosexuality was still illegal in Germany at the time.

Though they weren't part of the final solution a lot of them died in the camps.

Years and years ago i watched something about the homosexuals in the camps but don't remember very well. Didn't they have to wear a triangle or something?

[Ferox13]

Originally Posted by Bastet

Years and years ago i watched something about the homosexuals in the camps but don't remember very well. Didn't they have to wear a triangle or something?

There was a complicated badge system for jews/gypsies/gays etc etc

[Deimos]

Originally Posted by Ferox13

I like both films - CH is head+shoulders above everything else in the genre. I love the whole found fottage concept and the way it manipulates the viewer. Though I don't condone the animal killing I don't see it as a big an issue as alot of people make out and apprently the turtle was eaten afterwards...There is a SUpermarket near me (or House of DEath as I like to call it :-) which is filled with the results of animal cruelty (veal or foie gras anyone) and people don't really bat an eyelid.....

Though MBTS is tcheapand exploitative I still enjoyed it - the cat scene is of course reprehensible (made worse as a cat is in the cute and intelligent list of animals unlike the turtle in CH). The 3rd sequal Black Sun: The Nanking Massacre is actually a better film and not as trashy (if you can put up with the buck teeth and jamjar glasses stereotyping of the Japanese). Forget 2+3 as they made by the wonderfully talented Godfrey Ho....

I totally Agree.