Bush or Kerry

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Vodstok
Most of the people in the military these days are there to pay for college. Bush kind of fucked up their plans. Granted, he cant be faulted for calling people to do what they signed up for, but dont mistake it for "voluntary".

For the record, I lived 9 years of my life in Europe and yes, most other countries DO dislike America immensly, even our allies. I have heard it from their own mouths, there is no better proof than that. (for the record, i appreciate all of the non-americans in here never once going off on an "America sucks" tangent)

I dont like Bush one bit. Nor Cheney. I am not "Liberal", nor am i "Conservative". I am Independant. i think for myself. I am immune tio both political party's influence. Bush is an uneducated spoiled moron. He has a Falwellesque way of using his religion to justify his decisions. And i agree, the current crop of Republicans in high office are more facist than they are "American". Freedom, of speech, of thought AND the right to take care of ourselves and families is what this country is ALL about.

You call Democrats socialists. Denying a person the right to make decisions about her life, or an adult to make a decision about what kind of entertainment they want is the hallmark of a facist dictatorship, not "The American way". Is Bush a good boy now because he found god? Even though he used Coke and and got a drunk driving charge in college?

I guess not. "He was young." Forgivable if you back the guy, but if a girl goes out and gets laid (or raped in some opinions), she doesnt get any time off for good behavior.

I always find it interesting when a pro-lifer justifies the killing of another person... I guess life ends after you're born. ABortion is wrong, but war is right :rolleyes: .

Dont get me wrong. i am an Air force brat. i spent the first 17 years of my life growing up on military bases. I support the military 100%, andf when they got sent overseas, they had my full backing. The president doesnt, didnt, and never will (as long as it is Georgy) because he is an idiot with Horrible motives. I wouldnt trust him to remember the value of a quarter, let alone with my life or my country.

You seem to forget, the people in here from America, OWN America. I want the government in general to remember, they work for us, not vice-versa. George isnt the head of the country, he is our figurehead. Congress is OUR tool.

And i will not have my employees telling me what i am to do with my life.

In the last election, NEITHER of the candidates got my vote. i voted for John Mccain. Why? Because he gets under EVERYONE'S skin. he is a republican, but the republicans dont like him because he doesnt follow their rules. Granted, he worked with Joe Lieberman and ms Dole to try and ban violent video games, but find me one person that agrees with you 100% on EVERYTHING. I thought he was basically a good man, which is rare in politics.


Sorry about the length of this post. i also apologise for any hostility that may habve come through, but reading through the thread, politeness has gone bye bye.

If anyone thinks i have my head up my ass, i am interested to hear your reasons.

You have no way of knowing why most people joined the military. Our Military is voluntary! Everyone who joins signs on the dotted line volunteering to fight if called upon.

Anyone who joins for college money is an idiot. Just another bullshit democrat way of thinking... Hmmm? how can I get free college money? Oh I know, I'll join the military and let tax dollars pay for it. hmmm? how can I get more handouts? I know, I'll vote for the democrats so they can take more money from hardworking folks and give it to me so I don't have to work hard.


Spending time in Europe does not give you the knowledge to state "most other countries" hate America. If your speaking of other countries governments, your dead wrong. If your trying to speak for the citizens of each country, well that's just silly.

There are millions of people around the world who respect America and are grateful for it's role in the world. Of course there are also people who hate us. Doesn't really matter though, they all come calling when they need help.

Like it or not, America leads the world and without our help (on many levels) whole Countries would collapse.

Comparing abortion to war is laughable.. Do you really not see the difference? Of course there are innocent people dying in wars.... How can you compare that to someone killing a baby because they didn't use birth control?

I don't think anyone other than radical Muslims thinks war is right. Unfortunately it is necessary in this world. History has proven that again and again.

You can thank war for your pampered life in America.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
I, too, am neither Democrat nor Republican. However, I tend to agree more with the Democrat's side than the Republican's, and hence, I vote Democrat almost every time. I usually don't vote outside of the Democrat/Republican duality simply because the people who usually vote independent would have voted Democrat if they had to choose between just the two. And this is why I think Gore lost the Presidency ... too many traditionally Democratic voters going independent.

But I agree with practically all of what Vod just typed.

:D

Gore lost the presidency because he had less votes! I hate it when people say that independent votes would have been Gores. That's just ridiculousness at it's finest!

[Vodstok]

How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

"Bullshit democrat way of thinking". That's an informed opinion. I imagine real-world discussions with you resort to you shouting your ideas loudly so that the other person cant get a word in edgewise and gets irritated an leaves, therefore you dont have to hear their stance and can go on in your self-righteous indignation. Or, i could be wrong. Thtat is just the impression you are giving.

Also, in case you havent noticed, the attitude of the government very rarely reflects the feelings of the populace at large. I DO agree that a large part of why some of the world's most successful nations are the way they are is because of our influence (Germany and Japan are 2 examples). that doesnt mean they all love us.

We ARE also the only remaining Superpower on earth, and this is the root of a lot of our unpopularity. Rather than being seen as benevolent leaders, we are seen as arrogant, pushy bullies. And fundamentalist muslims are just the latest crop of people that cant stand us. And many MANY people and countries want to start war. Why else would they have such large standing armies when they dont need one? The only thing holding them back is the fact that any act of violence these days brings the UN and America down on them like a swarm of wasps.

This IS a good thing i believe. Being good out of fear of punishment isn't GOOD, but its a start.

Also, the "You need us" approach isnt going to make us any more freinds. Try telling a Canadian that they Need us to cover their ass. Or an English person. So what if onpaper it is true? so what if America didnt back many countries they would be easy fodder for their neighbors? Do you want the cops swinging by every so oftenreminding you that without them, someone could come into your house and steal all your things and you could do nothing? Of course not.

I compar ewar to abortion because abortion is considered murder, but innocents killed in war are "acceptable losses". Again, if they aborted a baby, they would be evil bastards, but if they blew up a building and killed 20, they made a slip up. Believ me, you dont spend your life growing up in the military and not know a thing or two about war.

I know what war has done for us. i also know the difference between World War 2 and Vietnam. I knwo the difference between fighting for whats right, and fighting to prevent a nation from converting to a system of government that we dont want them to have,but they could care less about.

Iraq was a 50/50 war. Saddam needed tobe taken down, he was a bad person doing bad things. BUT, we should not be lied to. i would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked.

I thank the people who FOUGHT for this country for my life, not the wars they fought. "A true warrior prepares for battle, but prays for peace." You might want to put a little more thought into your words before you use them, as you have advise3d others to do. War doesnt do shit but kill people. its the people who were in them that actually accomplished something.

And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Gore lost the presidency because he had less votes! I hate it when people say that independent votes would have been Gores. That's just ridiculousness at it's finest!

The fact that you don't realize that the majority of Independent Party voters are liberals, and therefore would have probably voted for Gore had they had no other choice is even more ridiculous.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vodstok
How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

"Bullshit democrat way of thinking". That's an informed opinion. I imagine real-world discussions with you resort to you shouting your ideas loudly so that the other person cant get a word in edgewise and gets irritated an leaves, therefore you dont have to hear their stance and can go on in your self-righteous indignation. Or, i could be wrong. Thtat is just the impression you are giving.

Also, in case you havent noticed, the attitude of the government very rarely reflects the feelings of the populace at large. I DO agree that a large part of why some of the world's most successful nations are the way they are is because of our influence (Germany and Japan are 2 examples). that doesnt mean they all love us.

We ARE also the only remaining Superpower on earth, and this is the root of a lot of our unpopularity. Rather than being seen as benevolent leaders, we are seen as arrogant, pushy bullies. And fundamentalist muslims are just the latest crop of people that cant stand us. And many MANY people and countries want to start war. Why else would they have such large standing armies when they dont need one? The only thing holding them back is the fact that any act of violence these days brings the UN and America down on them like a swarm of wasps.

This IS a good thing i believe. Being good out of fear of punishment isn't GOOD, but its a start.

Also, the "You need us" approach isnt going to make us any more freinds. Try telling a Canadian that they Need us to cover their ass. Or an English person. So what if onpaper it is true? so what if America didnt back many countries they would be easy fodder for their neighbors? Do you want the cops swinging by every so oftenreminding you that without them, someone could come into your house and steal all your things and you could do nothing? Of course not.

I compar ewar to abortion because abortion is considered murder, but innocents killed in war are "acceptable losses". Again, if they aborted a baby, they would be evil bastards, but if they blew up a building and killed 20, they made a slip up. Believ me, you dont spend your life growing up in the military and not know a thing or two about war.

I know what war has done for us. i also know the difference between World War 2 and Vietnam. I knwo the difference between fighting for whats right, and fighting to prevent a nation from converting to a system of government that we dont want them to have,but they could care less about.

Iraq was a 50/50 war. Saddam needed tobe taken down, he was a bad person doing bad things. BUT, we should not be lied to. i would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked.

I thank the people who FOUGHT for this country for my life, not the wars they fought. "A true warrior prepares for battle, but prays for peace." You might want to put a little more thought into your words before you use them, as you have advise3d others to do. War doesnt do shit but kill people. its the people who were in them that actually accomplished something.

And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

Good show, Vod.

[Vodstok]

I'm just glad that if we are going to be ridiculous, at least were are of a high caliber apprently :)

And thank you :)


I didnt particularly appreciate being spoken(?) to as if i am an ignorant child. i thought i was more than giving in the abortion thread with gothic chick and i am trying to remain above the insults. i wish she could do the same :rolleyes:

I am, however, not surprised. Bwind is always rational and polite, why cant the people that agree with him be?

[Arioch]

I didnt particularly appreciate being spoken(?) to as if i am an ignorant child. i thought i was more than giving in the abortion thread with gothic chick and i am trying to remain above the insults. i wish she could do the same

Ya she does that...a little bit of RottingEye syndrome....

Anyone who joins for college money is an idiot. Just another bullshit democrat way of thinking

LMAO!!! I mean what can you say to that but LMAO!!!

How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

THANK YOU!!! It appears that since we have BOTH incountered this from different sources throughout our lives, we are BOTH subject to baseless opinions according to her...:rolleyes:

would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked

Agreed. It was the fact that we were lied to and mislead for his political agenda that pisses me off....not the fact that we went after sadam, who, ill agree, needed to be taken down.....but WTF couldn't the fucking cokehead just be honest about it?

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vodstok
And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

And do damage he did. As an educator (and I'm surprised nobody else comments on this point) I can professionally vouch for the fact that Bush screwed up this nation's public education system BIG TIME with his "No Child Left Behind" act. As a teacher, I have studied theories and practices of education from rote memorization to constructivism. I know the positives and negatives of almost every educational philosophy put into print, and also know that the past 20 years of research into learning and learning styles has shown conclusively that standardized testing does NOT help education, and, in fact, is detrimental to student learning. So what does Bush do in his infinite hick-wisdom? He makes it a law that ALL students MUST pass a series of state-administered standardized tests before they are allowed to graduate. Now, teachers (just to keep their jobs), have been forced to throw out all of their ideals regarding independent thought and study on the part of the student, have regressed from student-centered constructivist classrooms to the traditional "teacher as dictator" classrooms, and have basically turned our schools from progressive, cooperative-learning institutions into ruler-slapping, repeat- and-recite idiot factories. I am a teacher. I know.

If anything irks me about Bush, it is this. We seriously need to get him out of office before he starts meddling in anything else he's too uneducated to know shit about.

[fluffho]

At least here in san diego... so many of the students are failing these tests that theyve lowered the bars to 7th and 8th grade levels,

and stil... Many are failing!! pretty funny

but hey... more drones to add to the fighting force right? fuck doctors, teachers, scientist... WE NEED MORE SOLDIERS!!!

DIE STINGY DIE!!!! (still on my mantra from earlier, in caseu take that too personally mr stinge. got nothin but love for ya)

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by fluffho
At least here in san diego... so many of the students are failing these tests that theyve lowered the bars to 7th and 8th grade levels,

and stil... Many are failing!! pretty funny

but hey... more drones to add to the fighting force right? fuck doctors, teachers, scientist... WE NEED MORE SOLDIERS!!!

DIE STINGY DIE!!!! (still on my mantra from earlier, in caseu take that too personally mr stinge. got nothin but love for ya)

Many of the students are failing these tests because teachers have been taught how to teach according to recent educational research. Now, they have to teach to the test ... which is something they never learned to do (which, in fact, they were taught was a terrible way to teach.) We have all had to attend workshops on how to teach to the standardized tests, and basically stuff our four years of college training in the trash. It's completely horrifying.