fucking terrifying

[AUSTIN316426808]

Concerning the religious discussion...



There's no proof that God exist or not, simply as that. In my opinion as 'stupid' as it sounds, it's a bit more rational that one does. That's another discussion that I'd rather not get into because as it's been pointed out already it has no other ending than, ''you prove it''...''no, you prove it.'' petty bullshit.

Also..

Saying that someone is stupid and/or inferior for their religious beliefs makes you no better than those who claim others are stupid and/or inferior for not having such beliefs.

Now that that's out of the way...

You can't blame a religion for the actions of what a portion of the people involved exploit it for. You also don't have any evidence to make the argument that you actually can blame religion for such actions and that it's different from people using violent movies as scapegoats. The reason you say it's different is because...

"religion has far wider and more devastating consequences than ideas that might be sparked through watching a violent film, and that the unnecessity of religion to be able to practice positive living makes religion, to use the phrase again, more bother than it is worth.

So what you're saying is since religion is a more popular scapegoat than film it's ok to throw the blame of the people who exploit it on religion. It's true that it is far wider but that still doesn't make it the religion's fault, the mosque didn't fly planes into the WTC, the Bible didn't molest any alter boys...people did those things not the religion itself. It's the same with film, music, video games ect. Whether it's a smaller scale or not is irrelevant. Just like I said a Bible or mosque has never hurt anybody, well neither has American Psycho, Marilyn Manson or Grand Theft Auto but they are constantly blamed instead of the actual people committing these actions just like you're blaming religion for the actions of the people who committed them.

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by AUSTIN316426808
Concerning the religious discussion...



There's no proof that God exist or not, simply as that. In my opinion as 'stupid' as it sounds, it's a bit more rational that one does. That's another discussion that I'd rather not get into because as it's been pointed out already it has no other ending than, ''you prove it''...''no, you prove it.'' petty bullshit.

Also..

Saying that someone is stupid and/or inferior for their religious beliefs makes you no better than those who claim others are stupid and/or inferior for not having such beliefs.

Now that that's out of the way...

You can't blame a religion for the actions of what a portion of the people involved exploit it for. You also don't have any evidence to make the argument that you actually can blame religion for such actions and that it's different from people using violent movies as scapegoats. The reason you say it's different is because...

"religion has far wider and more devastating consequences than ideas that might be sparked through watching a violent film, and that the unnecessity of religion to be able to practice positive living makes religion, to use the phrase again, more bother than it is worth.

So what you're saying is since religion is a more popular scapegoat than film it's ok to throw the blame of the people who exploit it on religion. It's true that it is far wider but that still doesn't make it the religion's fault, the mosque didn't fly planes into the WTC, the Bible didn't molest any alter boys...people did those things not the religion itself. It's the same with film, music, video games ect. Whether it's a smaller scale or not is irrelevant. Just like I said a Bible or mosque has never hurt anybody, well neither has American Psycho, Marilyn Manson or Grand Theft Auto but they are constantly blamed instead of the actual people committing these actions just like you're blaming religion for the actions of the people who committed them.

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.

^^^^^^^^Austin's longest post EVER^^^^^^^^

WOO HOO...*celebrates*...:p

But, seriously...To break away from this momentous occasion for a second...

Scientology is not REALLY a religion...It's more of a philosophy *cough cult cough*...Its founder is simply a scheming con artist trying to make a fast easy buck...There is no deity or higher power (Aliens would not count, as they would be considered organic, just like US, Even if they are supposed to be of a higher intellect than us, that would NOT make them a 'higher power'...IF they existed)...How can ANYONE believe that a science fiction writer, charged with fraud and embezzlement, running from the law, could truly be a 'spiritual leader'?...And how could they not see that his 'enlightment' and drive, as well as his sole purpose, are fueled by the pursuit of wealth...Nothing but GREED?

~A sucker is born every minute~P.T. Barnum



However...About your comments concerning religion in general...I agree 100%

[PR3SSUR3]

Au contraire Austin, I have provided proof that God does not exist. No proof to the contrary has been forthcoming. With the stalemate broken, there are of course no petty arguments.

It might be idealistic that one could exist, but not rational.

Remember that the people craft the doctrines, the people preach the values, and the people worship their Gods - with only blind faith to proffer, religion is the people, and all involved are a part of the very concept, whether they perceive themselves as 'good' or 'bad' (of course the millions of 'bad' do not religiously consider themselves as so, which demonstrates one of the awesome flaws within the practice).

That religious destruction occurs on a much larger scale than film or computer game violence is hardly irrelevant. History has taught us that the vast majority of crimes against humanity have been committed in its name - two of the current most popular offenders being Osama Bin Laden and George Bush, who together have the blood of thousands on their hands in pursuit of their Missions From God. Reactions to cinema or computer entertainment have a miniscule impact on the planet by comparison.

Religion is not a scapegoat - it's two biggest representatives are fundementally defective theologies which will encourage the deaths of millions over the next few centuries, and all its subscribers are however nonchalantly doing their bit to keep the fear and repression that is required alive and kicking.

[AUSTIN316426808]

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
Au contraire Austin, I have provided proof that God does not exist.

Au contraire PR3SSUR3, you have no proof that God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
It might be idealistic that one could exist, but not rational.

That's your opinion, I think it's rational.

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
(of course the millions of 'bad' do not religiously consider themselves as so, which demonstrates one of the awesome flaws within the practice).

-The religion-(Islam) Clearly says Do Not Kill.

-The people-(Al Qaeda) killed people.

Looks like the flaw isn't in the religion, but with the people.

Originally posted by PR3SSUR3
That religious destruction occurs on a much larger scale than film or computer game violence is hardly irrelevant.

It's irrelevant when used to say the two can't be compared. It's true that it's a larger scale than film, but film can still be used as an example.

[Haunted]

Austin... I'm going to write a song about you. Give me some time to come up with the lyrics.:D

Anyway... I think that your counter points were very sound.

Not to rip into you Pr3ssur3, but I do think that your equation was made up. You still haven't given us the source of that equation, nor how the results disprove that there is no deity of any kind.

I wanted to be a smart-ass and say, "Yes, Pr3ssur3, your right. You've proven there is no God, per se. Now we know there is no "God" only the Goddess. However that would be not only rude, but counter productive as well. :D

[PR3SSUR3]

The Islamic interpretation of the sixth Commandment is ominous: "And do not kill anybody that Allah has prohibited except when you have a right to kill" (6:151), "....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or
horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people" (5:32), "You shall not take life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law" (6:151-153).

In their Holy War, Islamic extremists are - in their minds - rightfully killing as they seek justice against their enemies. It's difficult to argue with - it's all right there in their sacred book of things to do. The infidels can be killed as enemies of Islam. Refer back to my lengthy post of several pages ago for further examples of encouragement of violence against those who do not support Allah.

I've already explained how a violent film (or computer game) is devised as fictional entertainment instead of a set of strict and deadly serious rules from a divine source. The bigger and more profound the declaration, the stronger its consequences. There is no comparison - you may as well cite the regular consumption of fast food as a similar reason why people have killed.

Also, refer back to my calculated proof that God does not exist in case you missed it. My proof is proven in that it demonstrates that God does not exist - it is functioning right now this moment. It has already been explained that the equation is demonstrated in its simplest form. It can of course be denied, but then with their blind faith the religious are doomed to live in constant denial anyway, so there you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kqqMXWEFs

[Haunted]

Here's the deal... One of my colleagues in the Religious Studies Dept. was a double major in Math and Religious Studies. He is also an Occultist. Oh... and he has an excellent grasp of quantum physics. The dude, Morgan, is a mathematical genius, and never told me of any sort of equation of any type that "disproves" the existance of any deity.

Math, which draws it's real history from Aristotilean and other Greek philosphers was never intended to disprove God or anything of that nature. Math simply does not have the ability to disprove Goddess or God, so either you identify the source of that equation or I'm still going to assume that you made it up or that it came from some bullshit artist more luney toons than even the most ridiculous fundamentalist Christian who saw Jesus in their macaroni.

[tarcher80]

I have followed your entire debate up untill this point... I have read a lot of good points and counter points, on both sides... However, at this point you should agree to disagree b/c there will be no conclusion, no resolution. I see two sides that "seem" grounded in rational thought; two sides that agree that this universe holds many truths and "proven" facts. This subject is not one of them and that's a fact.... But of course someone will say that's my opinion.

[AUSTIN316426808]

That's just your opinion, haha..ok anyway...


It's just something interesting to discuss, we're well aware that nobody's changing their mind.

[AUSTIN316426808]

@Haunted- I wouldn't give that a second thought. You can't prove God doesn't exist and you can't prove that he does. Unless of course he just decides to go...''Hey Mike, whadda ya say we go on down?'', the clouds open up...ect ect.