Interview with Leslie Orr and Maureen Allisse of “The Manson Family”

Leslie Orr plays Patty, and Maureen Allisse plays Sadie — two of the most notorious and formidable women in “The Manson Family”. Coming to DVD on April 26 is writer/director Jim Van Bebber’s controversial film, which offers a unique perspective on that bloody summer of 1969.

Interview by Staci Layne Wilson

Q: Was there ever any concern on taking on the role of a woman who is so vilified in American society?

Allisse: I was pretty excited about playing such a notorious character. Especially one who is still alive today.  I'm curious to know what Sadie herself would have to say about the film.

Orr: No. It was exciting on many levels. Patty is a monster, but it was important for me to bring something to the character other than that side. There needed to be the sense that she was truly acting on the belief that Charlie had mystical, god-like qualities. Her belief in him and his ideas was almost naive. Patty was a vicious killer, but she had a childlike faith in Charlie. She saw him as wise and omnipotent. She saw him as a father figure as well, so there was that aspect to her love for him. Jim expressed to me early on that Patty was the "die hard"...the one person who did not regress in terms of her faith in and admiration for Charlie. For the purposes of our film, Patty was the cheerleader. It was a wonderful challenge for me to take it on.

Q: What kind of research did you do to play your roles?

Allisse:  I read every book and watched every video I could find on the subject.  I listened to the Beatle's "White Album" forward and backwards.  I even saw a play in New York called "Manson Five-O."

Orr: Jim researched these people exhaustively. That was apparent from the beginning. I have always been a huge true crime fan, so I was very familiar with the case. In terms of research, I basically put my trust in Jim and let the character emerge.

Q: How did you feel about having to play so many scenes in the unvarnished nude?

Allisse: When we first started filming, I would watch the dailies and think, "Man I look fat,"  Now that I'm older, I see the film and think, "Wow, my tits look fabulous!."  Fortunately, I was very comfortable with all the people I did the scenes with.  I went to school with them, hung out with them, and worked on other films with them.  As an  acting major, I felt the nudity was necessary to capture the true essence of the Family.  Also, Leslie and I were close friends, so we kind of validated each other's nudity.

Orr: The first scene I did for the film was the beanfield scene with Marc Pitman. Whatever concerns I had about nudity went by the wayside right then. Jim directed the scene naked and made us feel very comfortable. It is truly amazing looking back on it, but there really never was a time that I felt embarrassed or exploited in any way...cold, sticky, filthy...yes. Embarrassed...no. I knew that the nudity was integral and never

gratuitous...it just felt very appropriate at the time.

Q: Why do you think this particular murder case persists in keeping the public spellbound, after all these years? I mean, even people who weren’t born until years later are still interested.

Allisse: The Manson murders are truly an American phenomenon.  What started out as a big orgy ended up as a blood bath.  I think people are naturally drawn to the 60s.  We still listen to the music and wear the fashions. Charles Manson has become an icon of American pop culture.  The whole idea of free love...doing drugs without consequence... fighting the establishment pigs...being a hippy...fascinates people who are bogged down with materialism and keeping appointments.  Kids who weren't even born until after the 70s are drawn to the Manson murders because nothing they've experienced compares.  They didn't live through Vietnam or the Civil Rights movement.  They're bored and unchallenged.  They see Charles Manson as some kind of twisted prophet.

Orr: I think it underscores so many of our most basic fears...that we can be in our homes watching television and just invaded...completely taken over. There are things that cannot be prepared for. This is one of those things. Those victims were totally unaware, totally vulnerable. We like to feel safe in our homes. These people were terrorized in their homes. The level of violence as well...the savagery, is hard to forget. There is also the cult mentality that interests us as a society. The belief that human beings can hold that kind of power over one another. To realize that these were "normal" people who became monsters over time is also scary and fascinating. It dispels the myth that you can know what a serial killer looks like...these were just kids. It is just horrifying to think about.

Q: I understand this movie was in production for years. Was that difficult for you, or did you feel as though you were better able to live in that person’s skin and get to “know” her?

Allisse: As I matured, I believe I brought more maturity to the role. Through my own personal experiences and observations, I was able to better understand where Sadie was coming from.  Especially my experiences as a teacher.  I realize Sadie was no different than many young people today. She craved attention and didn't get enough love from her family.  She turned to sex and drugs to fulfill those needs.  She was never popular, and didn't really fit in with the rest of society.  When Charlie came along, he made her feel beautiful, and useful, and part of something.  Her downfall was that she was consumed by Manson.  In an effort to please him and maintain her status among the Family, she resorted to murder. 

And now, like some so many other criminals in prison, once the high from the drugs and the notoriety has worn off, all she can do is reflect on what she has done and beg Jesus for forgiveness.  The same kind of thing can easily happen to

misguided kids today.

Orr: It was terribly frustrating at times. I felt Jim's pain. Of course it would have been ideal to have the budget in place and shoot the thing, but that wasn't possible. It became something I accepted. I think the years made some things work that may not have worked as well otherwise. The prison interviews had a totally different feel as a result. I matured a lot during the process and my respect for the film deepened.

Q: In perusing both of your resumes, I noticed that you’ve each only had limited acting experience; is acting something you wish to pursue seriously in the future?

Allisse: It's not easy to make a living as a professional actor.  You have to be willing to live in poverty and be rejected constantly.  I enjoy comfort and security too much for that.  I have a Bachelors degree in theatre.  While I was an acting major at Wright State, Jim Van Bebber approached me and asked me to be in his film, "RoadKill."  Jim attended the film school there. I guess he saw me in a play or around campus or something. Of course, I was thrilled to be in a film.  After "RoadKill,"  he asked me to be in "Deadbeat at Dawn," then, "Charlie's Family."

After I graduated, I had had every intention of moving to Hollywood and trying to make it in show biz.  That never happened.  I was in the Army Reserves during college, and was called to active duty during the Gulf War in the early 90s. After that, I got, married, had a child, and got divorced. Being a single mother is not conducive to pursuing an acting career. During that whole time, I was working on the Manson film.  Every shoot was like a Manson Family reunion. 

I recently completed a film called "No Pain No Gain," a body building movie produced by Samuel Turcotte, who played Jay Sebring in the Manson movie. I play a horror film actress.  Sam catered the role for me.  That movie is currently showing at film festivals around the world and being lauded in muscle magazines.  I've spent the last five years

teaching high school in Tampa, Florida.  I have a Masters degree in English Education. I just moved to Atlanta with my fiancée, Tim.  He took me to Paris last week and proposed.  I'm very content with my life right now.   I vent my creative energies through ballroom dancing.  I plan to continue acting whenever possible.  Jim has a few more movies up his sleeve, and we've already talked about my parts in them.  I would gladly consider any other movie offers that came my way.  (hint, hint.)

Orr: I enjoy acting so much. I have pursued it off and on. I am really interested in writing as well. I am currently working on a documentary short...my first foray into the world of directing. As I get older, I find that I am more interested in hearing the stories that exist all around me. Everyone has a tale to tell. I want to listen and find a way to bring those things to life somehow...if it's acting, writing, music, art...whatever it takes. One of my passions is songwriting. I spend a good bit of time doing that. The role of Patty came to me through friendships I had at Wright state University where I studied acting. It was to be a very small role initially. I am so thankful to have been involved. It was life-changing for me and the most fun you can have without breaking the law.

Q: There are so many scenes in the film that are downright difficult to watch; even for a fan of horror, it’s awfully realistic. What was it like acting with the people who are supposed to be your victims?

Allisse: Killing Sharon Tate was unsettling.  She was so pretty and pitiful. They did a very convincing job of making her look pregnant.  I myself was nearly three months pregnant at the time of the shoot. I remember thinking, "Sadie, you are one sick bitch." I prayed to God to forgive me for taking part in recreating this heinous crime, and to not let any harm come to my own unborn child.  Fortunately,  my son, Nicholas, is perfect. 

Another disturbing scene was when I had to sew Gary Hinman's ear back on after Charlie hacked it off.  It felt frighteningly real.  I was cringing the whole time. On the other hand, killing Shorty, the ranch hand, was a pleasure.  I had endured much physical duress during these shoots, and was fed up with Nate's incessant whining.  I remember sitting under a tree with Leslie, waiting to film a scene.  We were stabbing the ground with our retractable knives,  staring at Nate, laughing wickedly and saying stuff like "we're gonna get you, Shorty."  I think he was pretty creeped out by the whole ordeal. 

Leslie and I both took the murder scenes very seriously, being acting majors, we believed in "extended ensemble rehearsal" and stayed in character even when the cameras weren't rolling.

Orr: The dynamic was different with the victims. There was a palpable tension it seemed. I never got close with those actors...never really hung out with them on the set. They kept their distance. It was almost funny. I think there was a certain dread that they felt. Those scenes were hard to do...very physically demanding for everyone. I remember apologizing to Geoff Burkman at one point because I knew it was going to be very unpleasant filming the scene. I had to put a pillowcase over his head and wrap a lamp cord around his neck. It had to be believable and there was no way to do anything less than torture him. I think some of the actors actually feared me a little. I have to admit, I enjoyed that...made me feel like I was doing my job.

Q: I’ve heard all kinds of stories about your director, Jim Van Bebber; what was your experience in working with him?

Allisse: I love Jim.  I really do.  We're still great friends.  Jim is amazing.  He's a visionary--a tortured genius who truly suffers for his art. He carried the torch for the Manson film for decades after everyone else went on with their lives.  As a director, he is the puppet master.  There's a scene in the movie where we're all frolicking naked in some stream.  The stream was actually part of the run-off from some paint or chemical plant in Dayton, Ohio.  Of course, we didn't have permission to be there.  So here we all were, running around naked in broad daylight, knowing we could possibly get arrested or grow an extra toe or something.  Jim was so passionate and charismatic, he had a way of getting us to do just about anything....kind of like the real Charles Manson...hmmm....

Anyhow, Jim never asked us to do anything he wouldn't do himself.  Of course, there's very little he wouldn't do.  As an actor, Jim is great to work with.  I believe some of my best work was the Gary Hinman murder scene, playing opposite to Jim as Bobby.  It took over 30 hours to film.  We never took a break.  We were completely strung out by the end of the shoot, which added to the integrity of the scene. They had to actually rig up some fake sunlight outside because the sun set, rose, and set again during the shoot.  I also have to give props to Mike King, the cinematographer, who probably worked harder than any of us.  During that same scene, when  the gun goes off and breaks a lamp, it's actually Mike pulling the trigger.  He got it perfect in one take.

Orr: Jim is just amazing. There was never anything he asked us to do that he wouldn't be willing to do himself. He was wonderful to work with. He really made us love him. He was tireless and his enthusiasm pushed us all to work beyond exhaustion, beyond pain. I remember one time he needed a piece of glass to shield the gun used in the Hinman scene. He disappeared for a few minutes and came back with a very bloody elbow... literally dripping blood. He had broken a window in his house to come up with the glass. He is the king of finding the way to make it happen.

He is also aware of how daunting our jobs were and he respected that...always made us feel empowered. At the end of the day, Jim is also one of the nicest, most decent people you could ever know. He's the kind of director actors live for.

Q: There is literally buckets of blood in The Manson Family — what was that stuff, really?

Orr: Real blood, of course...what do you think? Actually, it was maple syrup and red food coloring. I still don't like pancakes.

Q: What’s your own personal favorite scene in the movie?

Allisse: I enjoyed filming the barn scenes when we were still a bunch of happy hippies. I loved the groovy outfits.  I recently showed a few scenes to my high school students (it wasn't easy finding parts of the film to show that wouldn't get me fired). They loved the part when I say "What's in the bag, Sunshine." I have to agree with them.  I look completely demented.

Orr: I love the beanfield scene with Tex. It shows how sex was used to manipulate. It shows Patty as a disciple of Charlie. It is also beautifully shot and gorgeous to look at.

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